RVSM Manual

[SheGaveMeClap]

I have a quick question. I'll use a hypothetical situation: I work for a company (Part 91) who buys a Citation Bravo. It's the first jet they've owned, and they have no previous experience with RVSM. As it stands, the FAA requires me to put together an RVSM manual for their blessing before we can fly into RVSM airspace.

I thought I heard at some point in the future that an airplane will be grandfathered, if you will, through that step by having an RVSM manual made up by the previous operator? It will be ready to fly into RVSM airspace upon delivery and the new owner won't have to start from scratch with a new manual?

Does anyone know about that, or am I making it up? I could've sworn I'd heard or read that somewhere.

Anyone?

 

[PHX767]

The way things stand now, as soon as anything that is in the approved RVSM manual for a particular airplane changes (owner, tail number, business address, Chief of Maintenance, etc) that invalidates the RVSM approval. Sad but true.

There are vendors out there that have made a cottage industry reapplying for RVSM. It's a huge pain in the rear.

I hope you are right, that in the future you can get approval to use the previous owner's manual, but that would not have a lot of info that the FAA needs to approve. Their manual would not have the correct address, etc that I indicated above.

 

[sydeseet]

Call your local FSDO and get the ball rolling. If the "hypothetical company" is buying the Bravo through a broker then the broker can & should assist with the RVSM approval. As said above - there are many companies that will sell you a stock RVSM manual and help you with the approval process. It's a pain in the rear but it's doable if you start early enough and find the right help.

 

[CapnVegetto]

For a Bravo, call Cessna customer support in Wichita and ask for "Team 550/560". You fill out a form with all your information, (hopefully the airplane is on CESCOM, if not, you have to research all the work done for RVSM, but they can help you with that), and fax it in. The fee is $2500 bucks, (a lot cheaper then any of the other companies I found to do it), and they'll punch your info into a computer and spit out a canned RVSM manual with all your info on it. They also send you a CD with the manual on it, so if anything changes, you can just change the form and spit out another one. You then call the feds, and mail it in to 'em, and they've got 60 days to approve it. The whole process is a royal pain in the a$$, but relatively easy to deal with. I've been told by the person I talked to at the FSDO, that when you do one of these canned manuals, it's easier for them because they know what to see when the look at a manual from Cessna, etc. and approval for them usually comes quickly.

Hope this helps!

 

[SheGaveMeClap]

Thanks for the good information. It's still a few months out yet, but I just wanted a heads-up so if/when everything falls into place I'd have a little guidance.

 

[CheeseDick]

For a Bravo, call Cessna customer support in Wichita and ask for "Team 550/560". You fill out a form with all your information, (hopefully the airplane is on CESCOM, if not, you have to research all the work done for RVSM, but they can help you with that), and fax it in. The fee is $2500 bucks, (a lot cheaper then any of the other companies I found to do it), and they'll punch your info into a computer and spit out a canned RVSM manual with all your info on it. They also send you a CD with the manual on it, so if anything changes, you can just change the form and spit out another one. You then call the feds, and mail it in to 'em, and they've got 60 days to approve it. The whole process is a royal pain in the a$$, but relatively easy to deal with. I've been told by the person I talked to at the FSDO, that when you do one of these canned manuals, it's easier for them because they know what to see when the look at a manual from Cessna, etc. and approval for them usually comes quickly.

Hope this helps!

Or you can save $2500 and do it yourself. All the information is on the FAA website, it just takes a little bit of time to work through it. I just know my time is not that valuable.

 

[fly4kix]

A certain FSDO in the southeast allows you to take the former companies approved manual, change a few lines ie owner etc and send that in, took two weeks for rubber stamp approval.
Call your FSDO now and get their input and a solid contact name and number good luck

 

[some_dude]

Yes, your time may not be that valuable, but your boss's time probably is. And, it will take you much longer to do it yourself than to have Cessna do it.

Don't be penny wise and pound foolish-- in the overall scheme of things, the $2500 is cheap.

Or you can save $2500 and do it yourself. All the information is on the FAA website, it just takes a little bit of time to work through it. I just know my time is not that valuable.

 

[CapnVegetto]

Yeah, I was actually told by a fed that allowing Cessna to do it was much better, quicker, and easier. He said that about 90% of the people that send in ones they did themselves have tons of mistakes in them, and they have to be sent back, corrected, sent back again, and reevaluated, and sometimes even sent back a second time. By the time you've actually got the new manual, you've probably lost a few thousand bucks in gas money truckin' around at FL280 anyway, so it's better just to pay the money and git 'r done.

What I was told by my fed was that the manuals that come from Cessna or whereever are canned, and the feds pretty much know exactly what they're going to say in exactly what order, and approval comes relatively fast. If they get a home grown one, they have to go over it page by page because they don't know what they're getting, and it takes a lot longer. Meanwhile, you're smokin' along at FL280 and burning the hell out of that $4.00 a gallon Jet A. Better to just pony up the dough and get it done quick.

BTW, I checked 3 or 4 places, and Cessna was about $1200 bucks less than the next cheapest one. It wasn't even close. Go with Cessna.

 

[CapnVegetto]

A certain FSDO in the southeast allows you to take the former companies approved manual, change a few lines ie owner etc and send that in, took two weeks for rubber stamp approval.
Call your FSDO now and get their input and a solid contact name and number good luck

It's sure not the BHM one. We got the old one from the old company, and that's what I thought was gonna happen. No f-ing way. You have to go through the manual page by page and change every single instance in it where the old company, owner, personnel, MX base, MX company, DO, CP, RSVP, whatever is mentioned, and change it. And there are a LOT. For example, at the top of the pages in the old manual we had, there was the old company name and address on EVERY SINGLE ONE. Not good. Not to mention the FAA approval stamps on most pages at the end of every section from another FSDO.

Of course, you could give it to some poor secretary and have her do it, but it'll probably take a lot longer and there will almost assuredly be mistakes in it unless you happen to have a secretary that is an aviation expert.

Bottom line, pony up the dough.