Russian Roulette

[longhorn12]

I initially posted this as a reply, but I think it warrants its own thread.


I am a regional captain who is posting under his father's account because my password never reached me after paying my fee. At my airline the mantra "Delta has reset our rates" has reached a point of recklessness. Reserve pilots are being continually pushed to exhaustion and corners are being cut where possible as a result. Mark my words, an aircraft with "Delta Air Lines" written on the side and on which passengers bought a ticket on "Delta Air Lines", will experience hull loss. Eventually a lawyer will be able to attach liability to a mainline partner. Only then will we see responsible aviation practices. Keep sitting atop your house of cards General Lee, the fact of the matter is your company's reputation and your career rests on the shoulders of some lowly regional exhausted reserve who flys your passengers. Sleep well tonight

 

[PUCK]

And like so many other "regional Captains" you need to grow up and grow a pair. If you are that tired then call in fatigued. I know it's hard to make a descision when everything is written out in that little black Flight Operations Manual. But they pay you to make descisions, so make one. Sleep well, we're all in this mess togeather pal.

Puck

 

[No Delay]

Puck,

While that is the cold HARD truth....

I have made the fatigue call and I can you it is very difficult to do. It shouldn't be! But it is!



I think the point he was trying is the airlines are becoming reckless and careless by pushing their pilots to the limit and putting them in that situation to begin with.

I also agree that when the metal hits the mud, any lawyer worth his weight would / should be able to make the connection the airlines execs and the mother-ship are somewhat liable.

A passenger / customer has the right to expect the airline to put safety first and not put their lives in danger....all for $39 each way! What cha gonna do????

 

[damnflyboy]

I initially posted this as a reply, but I think it warrants its own thread.


I am a regional captain who is posting under his father's account because my password never reached me after paying my fee. At my airline the mantra "Delta has reset our rates" has reached a point of recklessness. Reserve pilots are being continually pushed to exhaustion and corners are being cut where possible as a result. Mark my words, an aircraft with "Delta Air Lines" written on the side and on which passengers bought a ticket on "Delta Air Lines", will experience hull loss. Eventually a lawyer will be able to attach liability to a mainline partner. Only then will we see responsible aviation practices. Keep sitting atop your house of cards General Lee, the fact of the matter is your company's reputation and your career rests on the shoulders of some lowly regional exhausted reserve who flys your passengers. Sleep well tonight

The regionals have run out of road and they're clearly in panic mode. Regional management can only put so much weight on the shoulders of the pilots before we say "enough". There's no more juice in this lemon. The internet and media have spilled the beans on this crap job. There won't be anybody to replace us come the next wave. I don't know about everyone else, but I won't forget how they treated me.

 

[Abernathy]

scheduled 8hr layovers at ASA in march pairings across the fleet. Thanks for all you do!

 

[XJohXJ]

scheduled 8hr layovers at ASA in march pairings across the fleet. Thanks for all you do!

Does your contract allow a scheduled 8 hour overnight?

 

[Abernathy]

Does your contract allow a scheduled 8 hour overnight?

Sure does

 

[GeekMaster]

not only does it allow 8 hours scheduled rest..... waiting for the van, riding to the hotel, checking in, the van ride back in the morning, going through security, and walking to the gate are ALL PART of that 8 hour rest. So, if you're the type of person who likes to shower sometime between finishing work one day and coming back the next, and doesn't like to sleep in your uniform and therefore need a few minutes to get dressed, those 8 hour rests equate to 5.5-6 hours sleep max......if you don't eat breakfast.

But yeah they're legal.

 

[COOPERVANE]

I'm not gonna participate in 8 hour overnights. I PROMISE I will not make it work.

AT BEST, we will be delayed. At worse, I will call in fatigued at the out station. If we all did this EVERY TIME, I guarantee these would go away.

Grow some balls ASA pilots!!

 

[General Lee]

I initially posted this as a reply, but I think it warrants its own thread.


I am a regional captain who is posting under his father's account because my password never reached me after paying my fee. At my airline the mantra "Delta has reset our rates" has reached a point of recklessness. Reserve pilots are being continually pushed to exhaustion and corners are being cut where possible as a result. Mark my words, an aircraft with "Delta Air Lines" written on the side and on which passengers bought a ticket on "Delta Air Lines", will experience hull loss. Eventually a lawyer will be able to attach liability to a mainline partner. Only then will we see responsible aviation practices. Keep sitting atop your house of cards General Lee, the fact of the matter is your company's reputation and your career rests on the shoulders of some lowly regional exhausted reserve who flys your passengers. Sleep well tonight

Hello from a great hotel room in Osaka, Japan. Anyway, I hear what you are saying, and I think that is why the FAA is trying to change the rest and fatigue rules, to help guys like you who fly 6 legs a day or are tired at the end of each and every day. Someone is looking out for you. As far as corners being cut, you need to anonymously turn in that info to the FAA, and it will be fixed. Walk into to your local FISDO there in ATL (near the airport I believe) and raise your concerns. I bet they would want to hear from you. Also, when anyone buys a ticket online or a paper ticket, it states on the back or in small print who is flying you. If it is Comair, it will say it. Each airline has their own insurance, or can be covered by Delta insurance. The Comair crash in LEX paid out something close to $300 million dollars. That is a huge sum, and if that does happen again, expect even more RJs to be parked, because Delta can't monitor the training or create training programs for each RJ carrier, but they can for mainline. They monitor mainline's training closely. I am not saying "we are better than you", but some airlines out there have worse training, and that needs to be stopped. The reason this airline shuffles DCI carriers around is because of the Comair strike back in 2000. It cost Delta over $1 billion, and they have never forgotten that.

So, if more of your DCI planes crash, there will be less DCI planes out there the next day. IF a lawsuit ever comes to fruition that punishes a mainline carrier for a regional's crash, the days of regional feed ARE OVER. Insurance covers almost all of the liability, and unfortunately crashes don't stay in the minds of travellers all that long sometimes, unless they were involved or knew someone who was. (example---the Colgan crash victims and friends are pushing for the rest rule changes)

As far as me sleeping tonight, I will have a great sleep, because I know most pilots out there are professional, and that things are in motion to help change rest/fatigue rules for the better (or better than what we currently have). I would suggest throwing out a resume to the legacies or even SWA, and get away from the regional world as soon as possible. The benefits and choices are a lot better over here. Good luck to you.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[MACH-TUCK]

Hello from a great hotel room in Osaka, Japan. Anyway, I hear what you are saying, and I think that is why the FAA is trying to change the rest and fatigue rules, to help guys like you who fly 6 legs a day or are tired at the end of each and every day. Someone is looking out for you. As far as corners being cut, you need to anonymously turn in that info to the FAA, and it will be fixed. Walk into to your local FISDO there in ATL (near the airport I believe) and raise your concerns. I bet they would want to hear from you. Also, when anyone buys a ticket online or a paper ticket, it states on the back or in small print who is flying you. If it is Comair, it will say it. Each airline has their own insurance, or can be covered by Delta insurance. The Comair crash in LEX paid out something close to $300 million dollars. That is a huge sum, and if that does happen again, expect even more RJs to be parked, because Delta can't monitor the training or create training programs for each RJ carrier, but they can for mainline. They monitor mainline's training closely. I am not saying "we are better than you", but some airlines out there have worse training, and that needs to be stopped. The reason this airline shuffles DCI carriers around is because of the Comair strike back in 2000. It cost Delta over $1 billion, and they have never forgotten that.

So, if more of your DCI planes crash, there will be less DCI planes out there the next day. IF a lawsuit ever comes to fruition that punishes a mainline carrier for a regional's crash, the days of regional feed ARE OVER. Insurance covers almost all of the liability, and unfortunately crashes don't stay in the minds of travellers all that long sometimes, unless they were involved or knew someone who was. (example---the Colgan crash victims and friends are pushing for the rest rule changes)

As far as me sleeping tonight, I will have a great sleep, because I know most pilots out there are professional, and that things are in motion to help change rest/fatigue rules for the better (or better than what we currently have). I would suggest throwing out a resume to the legacies or even SWA, and get away from the regional world as soon as possible. The benefits and choices are a lot better over here. Good luck to you.


Bye Bye--General Lee

WOW...CLAP CLAP CLAP, good post General LEE....For the first time I can post and say that I agree with you 100%...CLAP CLAP CLAP

 

[dooork]

Hello from a great hotel room in Osaka, Japan. Anyway, I hear what you are saying, and I think that is why the FAA is trying to change the rest and fatigue rules, to help guys like you who fly 6 legs a day or are tired at the end of each and every day. Someone is looking out for you. As far as corners being cut, you need to anonymously turn in that info to the FAA, and it will be fixed. Walk into to your local FISDO there in ATL (near the airport I believe) and raise your concerns. I bet they would want to hear from you. Also, when anyone buys a ticket online or a paper ticket, it states on the back or in small print who is flying you. If it is Comair, it will say it. Each airline has their own insurance, or can be covered by Delta insurance. The Comair crash in LEX paid out something close to $300 million dollars. That is a huge sum, and if that does happen again, expect even more RJs to be parked, because Delta can't monitor the training or create training programs for each RJ carrier, but they can for mainline. They monitor mainline's training closely. I am not saying "we are better than you", but some airlines out there have worse training, and that needs to be stopped. The reason this airline shuffles DCI carriers around is because of the Comair strike back in 2000. It cost Delta over $1 billion, and they have never forgotten that.

So, if more of your DCI planes crash, there will be less DCI planes out there the next day. IF a lawsuit ever comes to fruition that punishes a mainline carrier for a regional's crash, the days of regional feed ARE OVER. Insurance covers almost all of the liability, and unfortunately crashes don't stay in the minds of travellers all that long sometimes, unless they were involved or knew someone who was. (example---the Colgan crash victims and friends are pushing for the rest rule changes)

As far as me sleeping tonight, I will have a great sleep, because I know most pilots out there are professional, and that things are in motion to help change rest/fatigue rules for the better (or better than what we currently have). I would suggest throwing out a resume to the legacies or even SWA, and get away from the regional world as soon as possible. The benefits and choices are a lot better over here. Good luck to you.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Spot on.

 

[jesterjames]

I'm a 10+ year captain at one of the DCI carriers. I have never been convinced to operate a flight I didnt feel was safe. I have had several occasions where the cheif pilot aided me in getting it resolved. I even had a few occasions where the cheif pilot later thanked me for doing what I did. Make a few calls before you work an unsafe flight. If your not sure the answers you get are correct make some more calls, go up the ladder. My program manger ever had to help me explain once to a cheif pilot why my concern was valid. Just make calls till you trust in the information your getting. Please, since I commute on all of DCI airlines and my family flies on DCI aircraft do NOT operate if not sure.

 

[the palm]

Don't you guys remember the Colgan crash in Buffalo? Fatigue was a factor in the crash. The industry did not change. Yes there is change in motion in congress but we all know how fast that happens. Not to mention by the time it becomes law it will be so watered down with loopholes that we won't notice much difference.

 

[COOPERVANE]

I'm a 10+ year captain at one of the DCI carriers. I have never been convinced to operate a flight I didnt feel was safe. I have had several occasions where the cheif pilot aided me in getting it resolved. I even had a few occasions where the cheif pilot later thanked me for doing what I did. Make a few calls before you work an unsafe flight. If your not sure the answers you get are correct make some more calls, go up the ladder. My program manger ever had to help me explain once to a cheif pilot why my concern was valid. Just make calls till you trust in the information your getting. Please, since I commute on all of DCI airlines and my family flies on DCI aircraft do NOT operate if not sure.

That works well if you HAVE Chiefs that will back you up. At My airline, if you call fatigued, your pay is docked, and you are given the third degree as to why you would call in fatigued.

It didn't used to be that way. Until the last year or two, I felt EXTREMELY confident that if I made that call it was "no questions asked"

But the OP has it right. Now that we are being squeezed and every dollar is being watched, it has changed. I will not change MY fatigue policy though. Even if I have to take a pay hit I'm making the call. What I am worried about are those that will fly tired because their pocketbook might take a hit.

Last summer I know several pilots that called the FAA about this assinine "no-pay" policy and about being pressured to take the flight anyway. On many occasions, pilots were pushed to fly past 16 hours. It's getting insane. THEY DON'T CARE.

 

[johnpeace]

I'll bet there's an investigative journalist somewhere who would love to hear about that.

 

[Abernathy]

I have said it many times over and the original poster is grimly correct. Within the next 5 years, we will see a major accident at the regional level with a fatigued crew at the controls unless the rules change. We will not have new rest rules in place this year either. The crew will likely be an abused reserve crew trying to move on in life, instead of a fat lifer captain who ridicules the above reserve crew types.

 

[sunlitpath]

I initially posted this as a reply, but I think it warrants its own thread.


I am a regional captain who is posting under his father's account because my password never reached me after paying my fee. At my airline the mantra "Delta has reset our rates" has reached a point of recklessness. Reserve pilots are being continually pushed to exhaustion and corners are being cut where possible as a result. Mark my words, an aircraft with "Delta Air Lines" written on the side and on which passengers bought a ticket on "Delta Air Lines", will experience hull loss. Eventually a lawyer will be able to attach liability to a mainline partner. Only then will we see responsible aviation practices. Keep sitting atop your house of cards General Lee, the fact of the matter is your company's reputation and your career rests on the shoulders of some lowly regional exhausted reserve who flys your passengers. Sleep well tonight

Do what you gotta do to keep it safe and healthy.

 

[ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by XJohXJ
Does your contract allow a scheduled 8 hour overnight?

Sure does

I'd love to know what your MEC got in return for that little gem!

 

[GeekMaster]

At ASA, it's always been legal. The only stipulation is that if your rest is scheduled below 9 hours, (down to 8) you are limited to a scheduled 10 hour duty day the next day. The sad part is that the 10 hour day can be extended a little more than that if it's due to irops.