RJDC and my life

[LearLove]

Maybe I'm wrong but...

Look it seems like everyone has a solution, comment, opinion on this. But what I keep seeing is that if there is one list per company merged DOH it would all go away. Then it would leave companies to compete with eachother instead of labor groups.

 

[FlyComAirJets]

aero99,

How would the RJDC supporters feel about a merger with "air taxi" types? GREAT!

Actually, our contract has a specific section titled Acquisitions which states in part, "...if the company establishes or acquires an air carrier...It will also operationally merge the 'acquired carrier' and become a single carrier with a single pilot craft or class, a single collective bargaining agreement, and a single integrated pilot seniority list." Not that is what I'd call a merger!

A LOT of conditions would have to be met to make it happen, and as Publisher reports, the trend these days seems to be away from mergers and towards divesititure (under the present corporate structure). If we could, we would do it so fast, it would make your head spin.

 

[RichardFitzwell]

Re: Maybe I'm wrong but...

Look it seems like everyone has a solution, comment, opinion on this. But what I keep seeing is that if there is one list per company merged DOH it would all go away. Then it would leave companies to compete with eachother instead of labor groups.

I am all for 'the one list' concept but DOH kills it for me. In the past, the regionals have been a stepping stone to the majors. Personally, all I have ever wanted to do is fly big airplanes at a major airline. The regionals have suddenly been turned into a career for many and these pilots have been slapped in the face recently with this reality.

Many people that would never continue on with the dream of flying at the majors (for reasons like no degree, an accident, an incident, whatever) see this lawsuit as a way to earn the respect, success and income they feared they would never achieve in their career path. It's hard to argue with their reality.

 

[skydiverdriver]

Aero99,
How can you say that you are ignorant, when you read all of the good information presented here? You may be undecided, or feel that you are uninvolved, but how can you remain ignorant? Also, for those of you that think this has nothing to do with you, do you think that the restructuring of all of the airlines would change your life? It might matter to you even if you don't work in aviation.

Richard,
Who ever said DOH to you? Do you know that this was a rumor, started by ALPA, to make mainline pilots think that regional pilots were after their senority? No regional pilot, that I know of, has ever seriously asked for, or expected DOH in any form for any merger. So, does that bring it back to life for you?

 

[skydiverdriver]

And, if Delta were someday purchased by a large airline that flew only space shuttles and global sst's, and refused to merge them, Delta pilots would be suing thier common union, just like we are. We are doing the right thing, and it will be better for everyone, even if some don't see it just yet.

 

[Tim47SIP]

Rich wrote - "I am all for 'the one list' concept but DOH kills it for me. In the past, the regionals have been a stepping stone to the majors. Personally, all I have ever wanted to do is fly big airplanes at a major airline. The regionals have suddenly been turned into a career for many and these pilots have been slapped in the face recently with this reality.

Many people that would never continue on with the dream of flying at the majors (for reasons like no degree, an accident, an incident, whatever) see this lawsuit as a way to earn the respect, success and income they feared they would never achieve in their career path. It's hard to argue with their reality."

1. Dont think actual DOH is an issue. DOH with COM/ASA then staple to the bottom of Mainline.

2. Mainline would still have requirements like, a degree, 5000 hours in X or Y, no accidents, first class med, etc. Don't have the quals, you dont get to bid up. Pretty simple if you ask me.

 

[RichardFitzwell]

Richard,
Who ever said DOH to you? Do you know that this was a rumor, started by ALPA, to make mainline pilots think that regional pilots were after their senority? No regional pilot, that I know of, has ever seriously asked for, or expected DOH in any form for any merger. So, does that bring it back to life for you?

Hey sarcastic,

I was responding to Flyin@500agl's post...

You need to mellow out!

 

[aero99]

skydiver,

I am and will be ignorant because I have only read parts of arguments from this board and from the fact that I don't and won't fly for a living. No matter how much I read, I will be ignorant to seeing the way either side sees the issues.

In my opinion, more RJ's means more jobs over the long run. It is also a fact that not all commercial pilots will get a chance to make 300k plus and fly the wide bodies. This issue hasn't really changed since the RJ debate started. Not everyone gets to be a Major League pitcher either. Yet, many dream and work very hard to get there.

Airlines are going to do everything in their power to reduce cost and maximize profits. If that means RJ with 50, 70 or 90 seats flying what the mainline pilots fly then it is and will happen. No different in any other industry. Eat or be eaten. That being said, I can't see the rationaliztion that the RJ pilot should be paid what the 76 pilot makes. I can see how this could make that same RJ pilot very angry as if they are being taken advantage of. You are. That is business and that is how businesses survive in the airline industry, medical industry and law industry to name a few.

I saw on an earlier post that RJ Capt can top out at 100k per year. Don't know how accurate that is but seems rational. With more RJ's and fewer widebodies I don't see anyway around some aspiring RJ pilots having to be " stuck" at this level. We are in pretty bad shape if we find ourselves unhappy flying for a career and making 6 digits. 100k a year is a nice income. So is 300k a year, but everyone can't make the top pay.

I wish I had a solution. I understand how hard it might be for some to realize that their initial dreams might not become as fruitful as they original thought. At the same time, there will always be a side of me that wishes I could have flown for a living no matter what Union issues are at hand.

You guys have the best job in the world and even if you don't get to fly the aircraft you wanted to, you will still make a very nice income, while doing what you love to do.

The grass is always greener......especially for us stuck flying the desk.

Good luck to all of you and fly safe.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Yes, absoulutely. If the taxi guys were purchased by Delta, and they wanted to merge with us, and get fair treatment from our common union, we would fight just as hard for their rights.

Actually SDD, while that sounds noble, it is incorrect. CMR's recently ratified contract includes language which forces mgt to combine the lists of only those carriers which operate airplanes with 19 or more seats. It appears that you have done the same thing that you are accusing us of. Seems a bit hypocritical. Those taxi guys would be in the same position you are, and there would be nothing you could do for them.

P.S.
My info regarding CMR's contract might be incorrect, as I do not have a copy. However, I believe that I remember seeing the 19-seat limit. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[bobbysamd]

Flying RJs v. not flying at all

Good post by Aero 99. I've tried to follow this and similar debates. I come from the same perspective. I am living proof that not all commercial pilots get hired and are paid the $300K. I applied, unsuccessfully, to nearly every commuter to try to fly anything. Not only will management try to reduce costs and maximize profits, historically it keeps trying to reduce staffing.

I agree with Aero 99 100%. I was never in it for the money, though I expected to be compensated fairly and treated properly. I was in it because I loved to fly. To be paid (fairly) for it was just icing on the cake.

Hopefully, someone will solve this dilemma.