right seat flying

[Floyd94]

When I was in flight school, I went through trainning with a partner. When we were working on our commercial tickets, we would both fly and log it as PIC. How you ask? One would wear some sort of view limiting device and the guy in the right seat would fly visually. Now we could only do this in VFR conditions. If it were IMC, then only one of us would log the flight as PIC. Just my 2 cents..

 

[avbug]

Floyd,

This is a well known and widely accepted practice, allowable under the FAR. 91.109(b)(1) sets the requirement for a safety pilot, and 61.51(e)(1)(iii) provides the legal basis allowing a safety pilot who is acting as pilot in command to log the time as PIC. The pilot wearing the view limiting device may log the time as PIC while acting as sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which he or she is rated, in accordance with 61.51(e)(1)(i).

HOWEVER, the safety pilot must be the pilot in command, designated as such. The safety pilot is not simpy able to log pilot-in-command time, unless he or she is the acting PIC.

This practice is acceptable to a point. Logging excessive time in an airplane not certificated for more than one crew member tends to make one's logbook look bad; it appears padded, and doesn't pass the "smell" test.

I should also add that entering instrument conditions doesn't change the applicability of this practice. That is, one may continue to log the time weather one is in instrument conditions or not, so long as the person manipulating the controls is wearing a view limiting device, or is in simulated conditions. What exists outside the aircraft is immaterial; the safety pilot is still required in the clouds if the pilot flying is flying because of restricted (simulated) vision. This applies if the aircraft is in VMC, or instrument conditions.

 

[Floyd94]

Its all about how you read the regs. I've done it and I know numerous others who have done it and we all have landed jobs at some of the top regionals. Wether it "smells" right or not I guess is up to the interviewer. Aparently it dosen't "smell" to bad...

Also, entering IMC does infact change the way this works. What good is a safety pilot in full IMC?

 

[Simon Says]

Check your POM. (pilot operating manual) If my memory serves me correctly the C-172 reccommends flying from the left seat, but I have never seen anything written about it in any piper manuals.

 

[avbug]

Entering instrument conditions does not change the fact that a flight operated under simulated instrument conditions, is still being conducted under simulated instrument conditions. It does change the requirements for the pilot in command, and the rules under which the flight is operated (if operated outside Class G airspace). However, it is still simulated instrument flight for the pilot manipulating the controls. The requirement for a safety pilot under 91.109(b)(1) is not abated, nor is the requirement to see and avoid.

Read the regulation.

With respect to the "smell" test, a small amount of time logged in this manner is considered acceptable, and it's common while working toward the commercial pilot certificate. However, a pilot who has logged an excessive amount of time in this manner will appear to have padded his or her logbook; a logical and correct assumption.

This is particularly the case when considering higher levels of employment, which specifically exclude any time when not the actual pilot in command, designated before the flight. In the case of a safety pilot, the ability of the safety pilot to log the time as PIC is a mere technicality. Upper levels of employment are concerned with what you've actually done, not what you've done under a technicality.

You'll note that no matter how much experience you have, or how many ratings you hold, or how qualified you are in the airplane, under FAR 121 and 135, the designated PIC remains so during the entire course of the flight. The person who "signed" for the airplane is the pilot in command, with very solid backing of the FAR, the aircraft certification, and the certificate holders ATCO and OPspecs manuals. With this in mind, there is little correlation between technical logging of time to pad one's logbook, and being rightfully in charge of an aircraft as PIC. Further, the logging of PIC while acting as safety pilot is considered acceptable in small amounts for meeting early certification, but considering that in most cases the "safety pilot" is attempting to act as PIC in an aircraft requiring crewmembers only under technicality, the appearance is that of inpropriety when the logging is done in abundance.

 

[PanAm24]

cross-country

Some have said a safety pilot may not log cross-country time on a x-c flight, although he may log PIC. I have not found any regs that support this. Can anyone support or deny this?

 

[avbug]

Panam,

A safety pilot may log cross country time, if the time has been accordance with the various provisions of FAR 61.1(b)(3) for which the time is being logged. Specifically, for generally logging a cross country flight as cross country, there is no requirement under 61.1(b)(3)(i) for the person logging the time to be pilot in command, or sole manipulator.

A safety pilot is a required crewmember in accordance with 14 CFR 91.109(b)(1), and may log night time, instrument time, and cross country time even if not acting as PIC, or sole manipulator of the controls.

On a cross country flight, just as instrument conditions and night, it's not a matter of "who" gets to log the flight. Everyone logs that time, if acting as a required crewmember. It has nothing to do with assignment (PIC vs. SIC), or manipulation of the controls. It's cross country, period.