Required Flight Crew?

[illinipilot]

I was just giving a lesson to a private pilot student. We were talking about seatbelts and shoulder harness requirments and the question came up. Is a student pilot a required crew member?

 

[SDdriver]

Or how about the same guy that won't wear it, but it doesn't retract nicley in a plane, like they do in a car, he will learn when he takes off and it sounds like someone is beating the hell out of the plane with a BAT, try explain that one to the people you are renting from. 'Oh hell I don't know where those dents came from, owner pulls seatbelt out and it extends perfectly back to the dents, Hmm" That should teach him, or when he hits clear air turb in a 152 and breaks his neck on the ceiling.

SD

 

[Deftone45075]

CAT in a 152, not too likely

 

[midlifeflyer]

I was just giving a lesson to a private pilot student. We were talking about seatbelts and shoulder harness requirements and the question came up. Is a student pilot a required crew member?

No.

"Required crewmember" means that the person is necessary because the aircraft certification or the rules under which the flight is conducted require more than one crewmember.

The only situation I am aware of that there is a "required crewmember" in an aircraft that is certified for one pilot operations is the safety pilot under simulated instrument conditions.

Watch out for the difference between who is =logically= required and who is =legally= required. The difference often gets people messed up. For example, obviously, a student and a CFI are necessary to have a dual flight. But you won't find a regulation anywhere in the FAR that talks about a "dual" flight as a type of flight that has special crewmember requirements.

 

[Deftone45075]

Oh thats right, in fact i totally forgot i did a trip in a 150 at 410 last year.

 

[SDdriver]

I guess it was to much to hope for people reading between the lines on my statment on CAT.

For you that are a little challenged, I was refering to moderate to severe low level turbulence with no visable moisture present, Ooo I better elaborate that, CLOUDS, you all might think that just includes rain.

If any of you have ever been in moderate to severe turbulence in a 150, you would know even wearing your seatbelt you will most likely hit your head on the ceiling, not wearing it, you are asking for a broken neck.

Come on guys do you have to act like kids? Arn't we all adults here? I guess not..Ooo gosh flying my 150 at 410. Geez Grow up.

SD

 

[SDdriver]

Well maybe a little...ok was kina funny..

 

[JimNtexas]

FAR 91.107 requires the PIC to ensure that "all persons" on a aircraft wear seat belts and should harnesses (if available).

Far 91.105 says that requried crewmembers don't have to wear a shoulder harness if they "would be unable to perform required duties with the shoulder harness fastened."

I had this come up in an instructional flight in a Dutchess once. The shoulder harness was so short that I could barely reach the rudder peddles (being a short guy). I didn't want to wear it, but the MEI made me wear it anyway.

After the flight we couldn't figure out if a multi-engine student was a "required crewmember" or not, so I just didn't fly that particular airplane anymore.

 

[midlifeflyer]

FAR 91.107 requires the PIC to ensure that "all persons" on a aircraft wear seat belts and should harnesses (if available).

Far 91.105 says that required crewmembers don't have to wear a shoulder harness if they "would be unable to perform required duties with the shoulder harness fastened."

After the flight we couldn't figure out if a multi-engine student was a "required crewmember" or not, so I just didn't fly that particular airplane anymore.

A multi-engine student is not a required crewmember. In fact, not being rated, he =can't= be a required crewmember. (I still haven't come across the rule that says that a Part 91 flight requires a non-rated pilot on board).

But it is an interesting quirk that a pilot in training, being merely a passenger under the rules, has to wear the shoulder harness that he is training to not have to wear.