Republic SOP type question

[great cornholio]

I was flying with a new FO and somehow we got to talking about Republic having a policy were their pilots are not allowed to hand fly the plane and that all they do is takeoff get it to 500ft then turn the autopilot on and then they have to autoland. He also said he heard that a lot of Republic FOs are failing their recurrent rides because the check airmen are failing the autopilot and the FOs cant keep from becoming a smoking hole in the simulated ground. He says he heard this from a Republic guy he had in the jumpseat last week. Anyways got me wonderin if its true. I don't think it is cause well it seems like a stupid policy and second can the 170/175 even do an autoland???

 

[Jester1092]

The RW SOP encourages the use of automation but it's not always required. Also, Republics' 170s do not have autoland.

 

[great cornholio]

Thats what I thought. Mandatory autopilot use and autolands seems like a bad idea...

 

[WSurf]

Thats what I thought. Mandatory autopilot use and autolands seems like a bad idea...

Why? The less work the better!

You can't fly the plane better then the auto pilot anyway (and it fun watching people that think they can). So just kick back, enjoy your coffee and let it do all the work.

 

[trainer8]

I was flying with a new FO and somehow we got to talking about Republic having a policy were their pilots are not allowed to hand fly the plane and that all they do is takeoff get it to 500ft then turn the autopilot on and then they have to autoland. He also said he heard that a lot of Republic FOs are failing their recurrent rides because the check airmen are failing the autopilot and the FOs cant keep from becoming a smoking hole in the simulated ground. He says he heard this from a Republic guy he had in the jumpseat last week. Anyways got me wonderin if its true. I don't think it is cause well it seems like a stupid policy and second can the 170/175 even do an autoland???

No it's not true. Use of automation to it's fullest extent is strongly encouraged. It just does a smoother job of flying the aircraft. Jorge does have his flaws, but overall, he does a better job, and he handles single engine approaches fairly well if you are trimmed and coordinated.

The E170/190 series is one of the easiest jets to hand fly because of its PFD symbology. If you remove the AP and AT, the Flight Path Director symbol "tells" you where to set thrust and where to fly and shows airspeed and altitude "trend." More captains need to let their FO's hand fly some visual approaches to "learn" the ship. Alot of the hand flying incorporates the use of "automated" features, such as Flight Path Angle and the "MCDU", the E170/190's "brain," to enhance the handflying. I think the rumor portion you are hearing is the failure to use the "magic" the airplane has and to augment that into the handflying. And...hey, we are hiring a lot of low time, inexperienced FOs, some who see kave never seen more than two tenths of IMC and have never flown a pressurized airframe in their lives until the E170.

On the other hand, I've seen two Captain candidates fail a line check by botching a visual approach by hand flying the ship and just plain being careless and sloppy about holding altitude and glide slope.

As for autoland, it requires the aircraft to be certified for the Catagory type of landing. The Republic E170/175 fleet meets at least up to CAT II approach certification and from what I've read, CAT III. But, CAT II/III also require crew training and currency. If my memory serves me, CAT II/III authorization requires crew currency, i.e, CAT II every 6 months, CAT III, every 30 days...but, I'd have to look up the FAR to be sure.

T8

 

[rogerwilcoout]

I was flying with a new FO and somehow we got to talking about Republic having a policy were their pilots are not allowed to hand fly the plane and that all they do is takeoff get it to 500ft then turn the autopilot on and then they have to autoland. He also said he heard that a lot of Republic FOs are failing their recurrent rides because the check airmen are failing the autopilot and the FOs cant keep from becoming a smoking hole in the simulated ground. He says he heard this from a Republic guy he had in the jumpseat last week. Anyways got me wonderin if its true. I don't think it is cause well it seems like a stupid policy and second can the 170/175 even do an autoland???

you're an idiot. I always hand fly it through ten. No such company policy.

 

[great cornholio]

you're an idiot. I always hand fly it through ten. No such company policy.

Seeing as how I don't work for Republic I don't see how not knowing their SOP makes me an idiot...but ok what ever.

 

[great cornholio]

No it's not true. Use of automation to it's fullest extent is strongly encouraged. It just does a smoother job of flying the aircraft. Jorge does have his flaws, but overall, he does a better job, and he handles single engine approaches fairly well if you are trimmed and coordinated.

The E170/190 series is one of the easiest jets to hand fly because of its PFD symbology. If you remove the AP and AT, the Flight Path Director symbol "tells" you where to set thrust and where to fly and shows airspeed and altitude "trend." More captains need to let their FO's hand fly some visual approaches to "learn" the ship. Alot of the hand flying incorporates the use of "automated" features, such as Flight Path Angle and the "MCDU", the E170/190's "brain," to enhance the handflying. I think the rumor portion you are hearing is the failure to use the "magic" the airplane has and to augment that into the handflying. And...hey, we are hiring a lot of low time, inexperienced FOs, some who see kave never seen more than two tenths of IMC and have never flown a pressurized airframe in their lives until the E170.

On the other hand, I've seen two Captain candidates fail a line check by botching a visual approach by hand flying the ship and just plain being careless and sloppy about holding altitude and glide slope.

As for autoland, it requires the aircraft to be certified for the Catagory type of landing. The Republic E170/175 fleet meets at least up to CAT II approach certification and from what I've read, CAT III. But, CAT II/III also require crew training and currency. If my memory serves me, CAT II/III authorization requires crew currency, i.e, CAT II every 6 months, CAT III, every 30 days...but, I'd have to look up the FAR to be sure.

T8

I was with a new guy who was still about 600 TT and 200 in the 145 and the autopilot did one of its famous clearing turns and he had it in speed hold mode in the climb and it started oscillating to chase the speed and I commented about how the autopilot on the 145 kind of sucks and then he said he had a guy in the jumpseat from Republic and that guy said no hand flying was allowed. I was surprised because I thought that the training/currency issue for Cat II and III autoland type things were pretty pricey. I know our 145s are equipped with the stuff that would make them cat II certified but the new a/c inspections or updates plus the training and currency issues with the crews was expensive enough that we didn't pursue the cat II certification after a certain code share agreement didn't pan out.

 

[EMB170Pilot]

I was flying with a new FO and somehow we got to talking about Republic having a policy were their pilots are not allowed to hand fly the plane and that all they do is takeoff get it to 500ft then turn the autopilot on and then they have to autoland. He also said he heard that a lot of Republic FOs are failing their recurrent rides because the check airmen are failing the autopilot and the FOs cant keep from becoming a smoking hole in the simulated ground. He says he heard this from a Republic guy he had in the jumpseat last week. Anyways got me wonderin if its true. I don't think it is cause well it seems like a stupid policy and second can the 170/175 even do an autoland???

Heard it from a jumpseater...it must be true

 

[great cornholio]

Heard it from a jumpseater...it must be true

Probably about as true as most stuff here on FI but weird story plus bored with internet access equals FI post.

 

[Pilot124]

This post goes beyond stupid. No Where does it say we can't hand fly the plane. I hand fly the 170 all the time including visual approaches. All SOP say use the automation, and I do when I am not hand flying it.

 

[Axel]

Dunno about RW's SOP, but the CHQ SOP says autopilot is mandatory for the approach if wx is lower than 500' ceiling or 1 mile vis.

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

I was with a new guy who was still about 600 TT and 200 in the 145 and the autopilot did one of its famous clearing turns and he had it in speed hold mode in the climb and it started oscillating to chase the speed and I commented about how the autopilot on the 145 kind of sucks and then he said he had a guy in the jumpseat from Republic and that guy said no hand flying was allowed.

Wow. Longest run on sentence... EVER!

 

[ATRGuy]

I was flying with a new FO and somehow we got to talking about Republic having a policy were their pilots are not allowed to hand fly the plane and that all they do is takeoff get it to 500ft then turn the autopilot on and then they have to autoland. He also said he heard that a lot of Republic FOs are failing their recurrent rides because the check airmen are failing the autopilot and the FOs cant keep from becoming a smoking hole in the simulated ground. He says he heard this from a Republic guy he had in the jumpseat last week. Anyways got me wonderin if its true. I don't think it is cause well it seems like a stupid policy and second can the 170/175 even do an autoland???

Let me guess, you are a ExpressJet pilot. You and your FO's sit around all day bashing Republic for "taking your flying" and how much of a "bottom feeder" they are. Gloating at every late departure or cancelled flight, all the while turning a blind eye to anything not perfect at XJT, then turning around and talking about picking up "more Delta flying". You know that your company is in a (mc)pickle right now, so you grasp at straws about how Republic does not compare to XJT. It makes you feel better to come on the internet and bash them, hoping to find a glimmer of hope in your situation. Prove me wrong.

AtrGuy

 

[CallmeJB]

I was with a new guy who was still about 600 TT and 200 in the 145 and the autopilot did one of its famous clearing turns and he had it in speed hold mode in the climb and it started oscillating to chase the speed and I commented about how the autopilot on the 145 kind of sucks and then he said he had a guy in the jumpseat from Republic and that guy said no hand flying was allowed. I was surprised because I thought that the training/currency issue for Cat II and III autoland type things were pretty pricey. I know our 145s are equipped with the stuff that would make them cat II certified but the new a/c inspections or updates plus the training and currency issues with the crews was expensive enough that we didn't pursue the cat II certification after a certain code share agreement didn't pan out.

Wait wait wait, you lost me. You were flying a 145 and were able to take a jumpseater?!

:laugh: :beer:

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Most companies have SOP's which require competency with all levels of automation... fully engaged a/t and a/p, a/p off and f/d on, and a/p off and f/d off.

I know people say "I don't get paid more to hand fly the airplane." It's just an excuse for being lazy... I come to work because I get paid. I hand fly the plane because I enjoy flying. Besides... why not handfly the first 4-6 minutes of a 4 hour flight, haha.

 

[dacm313]

I have been flying the 170 for a little over a year and love to turn the autopilot off and handfly, especially visual approaches (DCA). It's the only thing that makes this job worthwhile sometimes.

 

[BankAccount=0$]

Let me guess, you are a ExpressJet pilot. You and your FO's sit around all day bashing Republic for "taking your flying" and how much of a "bottom feeder" they are. Gloating at every late departure or cancelled flight, all the while turning a blind eye to anything not perfect at XJT, then turning around and talking about picking up "more Delta flying". You know that your company is in a (mc)pickle right now, so you grasp at straws about how Republic does not compare to XJT. It makes you feel better to come on the internet and bash them, hoping to find a glimmer of hope in your situation. Prove me wrong.

AtrGuy

Actually he is not a XJT pilot. Reference his earlier post as to his company being non CAT II and you will see he is not employed by XJT. Furthermore most of the XJT pilots really don't care about what the CHQ performance is for CAL (on the other hand ask a CAL agent in CLE what they think and you will find someone who does care). CHQ is there, and soon Colgan will be too, these are things we don't have any control over.

Our company is not in a (mc)pickle as you like to say. We put up excellent numbers for our Major airline customers, we have a airline of our own that we collect every dime of revenue from(after start-up costs are recouped), and we also have a crap load of cash on hand. If by a (mc)pickle you mean that we don't have any current growth, or perhaps any bigger aircraft on order I would point out that we already have 274 aircraft on property working/generating revenue everyday.

Also while I don't personally know McPickle, I can tell you that he is an asset to the pilot group of XJT far and away exceeding what he needs to be. While 90 percent of us cry on the internet about ALPA this, and my union isn't doing that, McPickle is volunteering his own free time to effect change for the pilot group at XJT.

Thanks for your concern about us XJT folks being kept up at night about CHQ's performance. I promise that you can once again rest easy in the knowledge that we don't care.....

 

[Axel]

... Prove me wrong.

AtrGuy

Ask and ye shall receive.

 

[great cornholio]

Let me guess, you are a ExpressJet pilot. You and your FO's sit around all day bashing Republic for "taking your flying" and how much of a "bottom feeder" they are. Gloating at every late departure or cancelled flight, all the while turning a blind eye to anything not perfect at XJT, then turning around and talking about picking up "more Delta flying". You know that your company is in a (mc)pickle right now, so you grasp at straws about how Republic does not compare to XJT. It makes you feel better to come on the internet and bash them, hoping to find a glimmer of hope in your situation. Prove me wrong.

AtrGuy

Nope I don't work for XJT but nice try. Was just flying with a new guy who told a story that sounded like BS to me (RW with autoland policy) so I decided to post on FI to see if they had that company policy.