regs question

[hifhflyer]

hypothetical situation-

you're scheduled to fly point A to point B and point B to point A. in the middle of the day, ops calls and tells you to do an extra trip to point C, repo back to point B and then do the original schedule. the flight to point C comes in under your 8 hour block, but the repo flight will put you over. legal to finish the day, or no?

 

[Andy Neill]

If I went to C as an alternate because I could not get to B (or A) and my subsequent legs were an effort to get back on schedule, then no problem. On the other hand, if the trip to C is an additional trip, then I would look on the rest of the day's schedule as a reflow subject to the same scrutiny as any other assigned trip. That is, I would look at what I had flown thus far, look at what the C trip and the remainding legs would add to the schedule. If it came to be more than 8 hours (Part 121) I would not accept the assignment.

 

[chperplt]

A repo flight will count against your 8 hour limit unless it's at the end of your day.

 

[phishn@daves]

Hifhflyer, I really wish I could help with your question but for some reason, all the rest req. Sh!t really confuses me!

I have been at the regionals for two yrs. now, furloughed twice however, but I still can't seem to get this crap down. I have no problems with all the other regs and systems and all that, but the wording for the rest Req. really gets me!

Does anyone have a Rest Req. "for dummies" handbook?

or just a simple explanation?

 

[hifhflyer]

thanks for your input- i agree with you and everything you said is pretty much what i thought, but i was told differently by the powers that be. i can't figure how they claim it is legal!

 

[godsgift2aviatn]

The company's position is that since it's a repo flight (part 91) it won't count toward the 8 hour limit. They are infact correct, however if you feel that you are fatigued then you have no obligation to fly. Of course both you and I know you will be doing the carpet dance in the chief pilot's office if you invoke that clause.

 

[chperplt]

Hey godsgift

You might not be much of a gift from god if you keep giving out bogus info.

An unscheduled repo flight in the middle of your pairing is absolutely, positively, without a doubt, included in your 8 hour limit.

 

[Heavy_D_Driver]

I Think Not Chperplt

121. 489 Flight Time Limitations: Other Commercial Flying

No pilot that is employed as a pilot by a certificate holder conducting flag operations may do any other commercial flying if that commercial flying plus his flying in air transportation will exceed any flight time limitation in this part.


121. 517 Flight Time Limitations: Other Commercial Flying: Airplanes

No airman who is employed by a certificate holder conducting supplemental operations my do any other commercial flying, if that commercial flying plus his flying in operations under this part will exceed any flight time limitation in this part.


121.471 Flight Time Limitations and Rest Requirements: All Flight Crewmembers

(a) No certificate holder conducting domestic operations may schedule any flight crewmember and no flight crewmember may accept an assignment for flight time in scheduled air transportation or in other commercial flying if that crewmember’s total flight time in all commercial flying will exceed:

(4) 8 hours between required rest periods.




Because reposition flights and ferry flights are conducted under Part 91, and are considered non-revenue flights, and are not scheduled flights, they do not count towards your commercial flying time limitations. So yes, hifhflyer you are legal to finish the day with the repo flight.

 

[patq1]

Re: I Think Not Chperplt

Because reposition flights and ferry flights are conducted under Part 91, and are considered non-revenue flights, and are not scheduled flights, they do not count towards your commercial flying time limitations. So yes, hifhflyer you are legal to finish the day with the repo flight. [/B][/QUOTE]

Do you get paid for the repo legs? That is commercial flying done under part 91. If you go rent an airplane or fly your own personal airplane that time would not count. If you are doing something that requires a commercial license, such as repostioning an airplane for your employer, it counts. Even if the operating rules that the flight is conducted under are part 91.

Pat

 

[chperplt]

Heavy_D_Driver

If I were you, I would keep an awful lot of NASA forms with me. With your understanding of the regs, you'll need them!!

Are you guys union over there at Great Lakes? If so, go ask your union people to explain to you how the flight time rules actually work, since you don't have a clue.

By the way... You left out the most important subpart of that regulation. The one where it tells you when you can go over 8 hours legally.

As was said above. Any unscheduled repo in the middle of your day is part of your 8 hour limitation. Any unscheduled repo after the completion of your pairing is not part of your 8 hour limit and it legal to complete.

 

[Supersteve]

The easiest way to remember the req is. . .

Your duty time for 135/121 starts with any commercial flying 91/135/121 you do. If you are required to reposition for your first flight of the day your duty time starts with dutying on for the reposition leg.

For 135/121 if your day ends with a 91 reposition it does not count towards your duty day for that day. Your required rest time starts after you duty off from the last commercial flying.
An example, you fly your duty day 135/121 and time out away from your final destination. The crew (no PAX) can legally fly a 91 leg to reposition to A/C. You then start your required rest time.

Hope this helps.

Steve

 

[godsgift2aviatn]

My mistake. My understanding was that the repo flight was the last leg. If it falls within the middle of your day you are not legal to fly.