Regionals and Delta

[samballs]

Anderson, stated 800 mainline planes and 600 regional planes. Only mentioned Mesaba/compass/Comair, he looked liked he wanted to puke when he mentioned Comair.

 

[bigshooter107]

He also stated no involuntary furloughs and no hub closings. Interesting.

 

[motch]

600 regionals!

This deal most be stopped now at all costs.

 

[flyf15]

600 regionals!

This deal most be stopped now at all costs.

Counting up all the regional aircraft flying for NW/DL right now, you get a rough total of around 800. So, for anyone who considers taking RJs out of the sky a good thing (I am one of those people), this is a step in the right direction.

Sure, I think it should be 1400 mainline birds and 0 regional contracted aircraft, but thats another topic for another day.

One interesting note I saw while totalling up the fleets. If Comair, Mesa, and Expressjet are eliminated, it puts the regional fleet at almost exactly 600. But, then again, I don't really have a dog in this fight, so feel free to speculate everyone...

 

[luvz2fli]

Counting up all the regional aircraft flying for NW/DL right now, you get a rough total of around 800. So, for anyone who considers taking RJs out of the sky a good thing (I am one of those people), this is a step in the right direction.

Sure, I think it should be 1400 mainline birds and 0 regional contracted aircraft, but thats another topic for another day.

One interesting note I saw while totalling up the fleets. If Comair, Mesa, and Expressjet are eliminated, it puts the regional fleet at almost exactly 600. But, then again, I don't really have a dog in this fight, so feel free to speculate everyone...

So in other words, you want to eliminate service to areas that aren't major airports? Or do you want to fly half and three quarters empty airplanes to these destinations. Or are you just looking to eliminate options on when you can travel? Which mainline do you work for?

 

[mpflies2]

So in other words, you want to eliminate service to areas that aren't major airports? Or do you want to fly half and three quarters empty airplanes to these destinations. Or are you just looking to eliminate options on when you can travel? Which mainline do you work for?

I know who you work for luvz2fli

whats happenin pm me or gimme a call sometime fool

 

[flyf15]

So in other words, you want to eliminate service to areas that aren't major airports? Or do you want to fly half and three quarters empty airplanes to these destinations. Or are you just looking to eliminate options on when you can travel? Which mainline do you work for?

No, I don't want any of that. All I want is airplanes carrying passengers who bought their tickets on XYZ airlines to be flown by XYZ airlines, with XYZ's airplanes, and most importantly... crews on XYZ's senority list.

Most RJs today aren't "regional" at all. They're flying to major hubs, flights across multiple timezones, etc. "Regional jet" is just a fancy name for outsourced. Even if you're an RJ pilot (heck, I'm one), it is in almost everyone's best long term career interests for regional airlines to die off and this flying be done by majors. Yeah, I know its a fantasy, but one can dream.

 

[IronCityBlue]

So in other words, you want to eliminate service to areas that aren't major airports? Or do you want to fly half and three quarters empty airplanes to these destinations. Or are you just looking to eliminate options on when you can travel? Which mainline do you work for?

I think that even if fuel was free, a combined DAL/NWA doesn't need high frequency RJ's to every hub like today. Just that ammount of slack being taken out of the system would provide enormous cost savings. Not to mention, fuel is far from free, which magnifies the enormous redundancy significantly. If it is your contention that going from 800 outsourced RJ's to 600 will somehow eliminate all service to middle America, then I believe you are mistaken. Scope issues aside, 600 RJ's are plenty for the business plan.

 

[mlifly]

........

 

[luvz2fli]

No, I don't want any of that. All I want is airplanes carrying passengers who bought their tickets on XYZ airlines to be flown by XYZ airlines, with XYZ's airplanes, and most importantly... crews on XYZ's senority list.

Most RJs today aren't "regional" at all. They're flying to major hubs, flights across multiple timezones, etc. "Regional jet" is just a fancy name for outsourced. Even if you're an RJ pilot (heck, I'm one), it is in almost everyone's best long term career interests for regional airlines to die off and this flying be done by majors. Yeah, I know its a fantasy, but one can dream.

Based on your first paragraph, would you still want code sharing to be done or no?

I would agree and that's because the word regional is used entirely too loosely. I wouldn't mind if tons of airlines did away with service to airports that need that extra money handed to the airline just to make up for the cost of the ticket. Sorry, can't think of what the term would be but ya I think it starts with an F maybe or something. Basically the government pays a ton of money per ticket just to have service to this middle of nowhere town.

Sadly as far as the regionals dying off, I would agree. But that would mean they would have to pay you more and we all know how many guys are basically willing to work for free out there. Look at regional first year FO pay and then listen to guys say oh ya, I'll take a pay cut sure thing.

 

[siucavflight]

So in other words, you want to eliminate service to areas that aren't major airports? Or do you want to fly half and three quarters empty airplanes to these destinations. Or are you just looking to eliminate options on when you can travel? Which mainline do you work for?

You really missed his point. Keep the RJs, but have them flown by mainline. This would be good for all pilots.

 

[JECKEL]

AP News today:

Delta has said that it was evaluating whether to sell any noncore assets, including Comair. President and Chief Financial Officer Ed Bastian said Tuesday at a news conference in Atlanta that the deal will have no effect on Comair.

"We've said all along whether we make a decision to ultimately divest of Comair or retain Comair, either way it's going to be an important part of the Delta network for as far as the eye can see," Bastian said.

 

[Speedtape]

I think that even if fuel was free, a combined DAL/NWA doesn't need high frequency RJ's to every hub like today. Just that ammount of slack being taken out of the system would provide enormous cost savings. Not to mention, fuel is far from free, which magnifies the enormous redundancy significantly. If it is your contention that going from 800 outsourced RJ's to 600 will somehow eliminate all service to middle America, then I believe you are mistaken. Scope issues aside, 600 RJ's are plenty for the business plan.

And you learned this at the Wharton School of Business? Keep your fingers on the yoke, instead of the keyboard! Leave finances to the professionals not pilots.

 

[luvz2fli]

You really missed his point. Keep the RJs, but have them flown by mainline. This would be good for all pilots.

On the missing the point, ya thanks captain obvious. You chimed in after it had been discussed more. I understand it would be great for pilots but hmm, let me think. Do you know of a company that says ya, "we should just pay the pilots more instead of getting cheap labor"? Please point me in the direction of that company if you do. Let's just stick to picking great avatars and leave it at that.

 

[IronCityBlue]

And you learned this at the Wharton School of Business? Keep your fingers on the yoke, instead of the keyboard! Leave finances to the professionals not pilots.

No the MBA you apparently got at the Wharton School of Business (for kids who don't read too well) tells you that what this industry needs is more RJ's. I'm not calling for the imminent demise of all RJ's. Far from it. RJ's will be around. I just think its very possible and in fact probable that the new DAL/NWA doesn't need 100% of its RJ's as it would as seperate airliens. Many of the RJ's are used to raid eachother's hubs and overfly some routes, so those can be taken out of the system. In addition to that, some (not all) of the inevitable domestic capacity reductions coming our way will be RJ's. RJ's and their operators won't see any international growth to replace what they lose either (OK, maybe the occasional segment to Ottowa or Monterrey but overall not much and a loss overall).

I understand you passionately wish for more and more larger and larger RJ flying. You clearly have a fever, and the only cure is more RJ's. I just think losing 200 RJ's systemwide is basically inevitable. Add the extremely high cost of fuel to the equation and it becomes a no brainer. Again, no one is saying all cities will have 5 RJ flights a day yanked in favor of one 767. Not the case. But you will see far fewer RJ's in the coming years. Still a lot, but far fewer.