Red Label Pay

[doh]

The new red label payscales look pretty good. How many actual pilots will be on those scales? Netjets will have 100% of their pilots on the new scales they negotiate. By my math, we will have less than 20% on red label. Remember, those are only for the three captains per airplane, and no new red label for at least the first half of 2016.
The only good thing about this announcement is management's admission they can afford much better compensation than we are currently receiving! A YES vote will unlock those scales for ALL of us!

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

So 20% getting red herring pay looks good to you? I'm voting yes for the (hold my nose) local1108. Even though the 1108 isn't perfect, I will back them 110% starting NOW. NO favors during peak travel. I have been pushing thru the holidays at the expense of my friends and family-AND what do I get? A raise for the FOK? Just doesn't cut it this time around.

 

[gunfyter]

What does Red label mean?

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Something like NJI. Use Flight Options pilots to crew new Flexjet airplanes. They take a PLOA and get a seniority # at the bottom of the Flexjet list but fly the large cabin aircraft as PIC's at a payscale below Flex pay. But they are "Friends of Kenn " so they get special treatment for doing favors for Uncle Kenn.

 

[NachoMamma]

Something like NJI. Use Flight Options pilots to crew new Flexjet airplanes. They take a PLOA and get a seniority # at the bottom of the Flexjet list but fly the large cabin aircraft as PIC's at a payscale below Flex pay. But they are "Friends of Kenn " so they get special treatment for doing favors for Uncle Kenn.

Holy crap YGBSM...do they lose their number from the FO side by doing so? Are there any actual takers for this load of sh!t? Self worth cannot be taught...you either have it, or you don't.

 

[993_Pilot]

Holy crap YGBSM...do they lose their number from the FO side by doing so? Are there any actual takers for this load of sh!t? Self worth cannot be taught...you either have it, or you don't.

Sadly there are takers, and obviously they are mostly self serving. Unfortunately, there are not many repercussions when management illegally interferes in a representative election like they are doing. Oh wait, I forgot... after they illegally fired the 3 Flexjet organizers, they had to re-hire them. Maybe they will get another slap on the wrist this time.

 

[BlueNose]

They ... fly the large cabin aircraft as PIC's at a payscale below Flex pay.

That will change if Kenn has his way. He's set what he thinks should be the top payscale in the company with this program. These are his new version of the five-stripers, his 'best of the best of the best.' If the Flex guys think their pay won't decrease accordingly, if KR is free to act after he wins his hearts and minds campaign, they're about to learn a tough lesson.

As the saying goes, 'Experience is a hard teacher because first she gives the test, the lesson afterward.' But the FO guys have already had their lesson, it's an open book test and they're offering their notes. If you go it on your own? Oh, there won't be any money, but when KR is through with you, you will receive total consciousness. So you've got that going for you, which is nice.

 

[imacdog]

Looks like management is going to win the divide and conquer game.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Holy crap YGBSM...do they lose their number from the FO side by doing so? Are there any actual takers for this load of sh!t? Self worth cannot be taught...you either have it, or you don't.

That's part of KR's plan to divide and conquer. The fools that take the bait have no idea what is in store for them.

And to sweeten the deal, they get to keep their FO seniority #'s. If they can't make the cut at Flex, they can return to Options. Pathetic!

 

[Praetorian]

Looks like management is going to win the divide and conquer game.

Na. Their just throwing Hail Marys.

 

[flexible]

So 20% getting red herring pay looks good to you? I'm voting yes for the (hold my nose) local1108. Even though the 1108 isn't perfect, I will back them 110% starting NOW. NO favors during peak travel. I have been pushing thru the holidays at the expense of my friends and family-AND what do I get? A raise for the FOK? Just doesn't cut it this time around.

Now? Youve been union stooge the whole time

 

[flexible]

That will change if Kenn has his way. He's set what he thinks should be the top payscale in the company with this program. These are his new version of the five-stripers, his 'best of the best of the best.' .

The rest of you're post is drivel but this does
concern me too. If this is what the top tier looks like it is not what he promised whould be best paid.

He had change to show what he means but didn't impress me. That might put me on fence especially since Rick had no answer to my concen.

 

[BlueNose]

The rest of you're post is drivel but this does
concern me too. If this is what the top tier looks like it is not what he promised whould be best paid.

He had change to show what he means but didn't impress me. That might put me on fence especially since Rick had no answer to my concen.

'Drivel,' you say, with that syntax and spelling? Glass houses, my friend. Hope that fence doesn't give you splinters. Cheers.

 

[flexible]

'Drivel,' you say, with that syntax and spelling? Glass houses, my friend. Hope that fence doesn't give you splinters. Cheers.

No posting from phone with fat fingers. I just mean the rest don't matter to me. The new top tier pay is not top teir.

Rl means essentially 50 mini corporate flight depts with built in sub cintractors, leverage and bulk discounts. Last I saw a cfd manager was 250 base easy for shops with new birds plus bonuses. Not even g6. I seen cl30 and 604 shops gives this. So how does rl being inside a bigger Corp justify discrepancy. Should have made it more not less since owners fees are leveraged and bulk discounts factor in.

 

[BlueNose]

No posting from phone with fat fingers. I just mean the rest don't matter to me. The new top tier pay is not top teir.

Rl means essentially 50 mini corporate flight depts with built in sub cintractors, leverage and bulk discounts. Last I saw a cfd manager was 250 base easy for shops with new birds plus bonuses. Not even g6. I seen cl30 and 604 shops gives this. So how does rl being inside a bigger Corp justify discrepancy. Should have made it more not less since owners fees are leveraged and bulk discounts factor in.

KR doesn't think pilots are worth that much, and sees that money as his. The answer really is that simple. I've never been a union cheerleader, but sometimes they're the only friend you have, even if they're friends you have to pay for. Look at it as a simple business decision, because that's what it really is for the other two parties (KR and IBT). Will you be better served financially by trusting KR and taking what he sees as your fair compensation, or by banding together to apply leverage and giving a cut to the IBT for their services? I think history and experience make for an obvious answer, but each will need to make that decision on his/her own.

 

[Bjtdrvr]

If Kenn changes the schedule to an 8/6 how much raise does that work out to be?

 

[993_Pilot]

...Look at it as a simple business decision, because that's what it really is for the other two parties (KR and IBT). Will you be better served financially by trusting KR and taking what he sees as your fair compensation, or by banding together to apply leverage and giving a cut to the IBT for their services? I think history and experience make for an obvious answer, but each will need to make that decision on his/her own.

A-Friggen-Men.

Seriously... if you can only look at this question from the most cynical and self serving point of view, ask what is best for you?... Supporting Management who wants to improve their bottom line based on lowering their expenses, of which pilot salaries are a huge one, or supporting the IBT who wants to increase their revenues which increase with the pilot salaries.

Honestly, I don't believe the question is anywhere near that simple, and there are a lot of other reasons to vote for the IBT. The biggest one is history, which should always be considered. KR is a proven liar when you look at his history, so nothing he says can be believed.

Don't believe the lies, don't take a chance with your future. Vote to have a voice. Vote for representation. Vote yes to support the Teamsters 1108. Your career and the future career of all fractional pilots depends on it.

 

[warlord19]

If you are an FO pilot, give yourself and your family an immediate(Jan ’16) pay raise, get your 401K re-established, and reap the other benefits of coming on par with Flex pilots. If you want to prove Darwin was right, keep the bullies in power and prepare for a miserable 2-4 years as EVERYTHING is re-negotiated, starting at the Flops contract. If one year after voting NO and management hasn’t lived up to their word, vote the IBT (or someone better) in…they will be there. Our FPOC “leaders” and their bosses use fear and obfuscation to make the pilot group think not voting the IBT in now will be the end of the world…..nothing could be further from the truth. DO SOMETHING FOR YOURSELF NOW. Vote No and watch us fly.
Cheers

 

[realityman]

I worked for KR for 6.5 years. And as a longtime NJ's pilot I've also been with the IBT.

You will lose, every time, by putting your trust in KR.

I did, at times, find the iBT to be self serving. But as others have said, the iBT gains nothing unless the pilots gain too.

KR will say and do anything to keep the union off the property. That in and of itself should tell you all you need to know about how important it is to have one. He has already demonstrated he isn;t above breaking the law to stop it. He REALLY doesn't want it. You should.

I literally flew with KR years ago, and was with him on the flight where he blatantly ignored a SID out of CYYZ because he wanted to get on his way quicker. That was over twenty years ago. He got his pilot certificate suspended for that one (I lucked out because back then the FAA was more interested in dinging the captain than the entire crew). The point is, he has a very long history of thinking the rules don't apply to him. This isn't something new.

How do you know KR is lying? His lips are moving.

Good luck to all of you! Promise you have our support!

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

WL"prepare for a miserable 2-4 years as EVERYTHING is re-negotiated, starting at the Flops contract." The only reason 2-4 years will be miserable is because of MANAGEMENT. The FO pilots' lived thru it before, so we joined the 1108. After SLI, if an amended Joint CBA can't be reached within 9 months, it goes to arbitration. If KR wanted to give us a raise, he could have done it long ago. We have a Union because of management's track record.

 

[exagony]

If you are an FO pilot, give yourself and your family an immediate(Jan ?16) pay raise, get your 401K re-established, and reap the other benefits of coming on par with Flex pilots. If you want to prove Darwin was right, keep the bullies in power and prepare for a miserable 2-4 years as EVERYTHING is re-negotiated, starting at the Flops contract. If one year after voting NO and management hasn?t lived up to their word, vote the IBT (or someone better) in?they will be there. Our FPOC ?leaders? and their bosses use fear and obfuscation to make the pilot group think not voting the IBT in now will be the end of the world?..nothing could be further from the truth. DO SOMETHING FOR YOURSELF NOW. Vote No and watch us fly.
Cheers

If the IBT isn't voted in it will be 5-7 years before a new CBA will be voted in. You'll have to start from scratch and everyone knows how bad first contracts can be. Voting "no" gives KR 5-7 more years, not one year. Ask RH what happened when TA voted "no", didn't take KR 24 hours to switch the schedules and decimate their pay.

 

[BlueNose]

If you are an FO pilot, give yourself and your family an immediate(Jan ?16) pay raise, get your 401K re-established, and reap the other benefits of coming on par with Flex pilots. If you want to prove Darwin was right, keep the bullies in power and prepare for a miserable 2-4 years as EVERYTHING is re-negotiated, starting at the Flops contract. If one year after voting NO and management hasn?t lived up to their word, vote the IBT (or someone better) in?they will be there. Our FPOC ?leaders? and their bosses use fear and obfuscation to make the pilot group think not voting the IBT in now will be the end of the world?..nothing could be further from the truth. DO SOMETHING FOR YOURSELF NOW. Vote No and watch us fly.
Cheers

"Charlie Brown, I'll hold the football, and you come running up and kick it .."

http://c0389161.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/dyn/str_strip/244898.full.gif

"How long? All your life, Charlie Brown.. all your life.."

Go ahead, this time you can trust him.

 

[Bjtdrvr]

What bullies are in power right now warlord? KR SAID he has not reinstated the 401k because he hates the union! So he then was lying when he signed the loa agreeing to bring it back when the company turned profitable again. He says the ibt negotiated a horrible contract, but it was his lawyers that opened the books and said that was all of the money available. Does this mean then that he has two sets of books? Or is he lying again and the contract actually was a good as could be expected because of the horrible economy that we were in? KR has always had the power but with the union he just can't unilaterally fire people for NO REASON other than he does not like their posture in indoc! Wake up wl. He has always had the power! He did not need the ibt's permission to buy CA! He could have done what he wanted to. But he knew the Flex deal was on the table so if he had purchased CA and taken their pilots the union vote would not take place because combined the FO and CA pilot groups would make up more than 65 percent! Military trained! Stip! 401k! Sick days lost! Nothing will change! Deanna is CEO of operations! I will let the CEO make the choice of where the company hq will be! How did that work out for all the FJ personnel in Dallas? There is no hired company to help us fight the union! How many things does he have to lie about before you get your head out of the sand? I for one would rather not get a raise and keep the union so I have some protection against this dictator! As for the union contract I immediately received a 10000 dollar raise 5 1/2 years ago. That was far more than I was getting from the company payscale set up by KR! WAKE UP and vote YES! You are not taking the power away but you are helping to control it! The only bully and thug that I have seen during this whole process IS KR! I have just stated the actual facts what do you have for facts other than innuendos? It is hard to argue with fact. Even in the NT Christ spoke to Saul and said "it is hard to kick against the pricks!". He opened his eyes to the truth after that! Maybe you will too! Make this your Damascus road moment!

 

[Rupert.]

Give the man a chance by voting for no representation. If he doesn't produce in a year, vote in some sort of representation. I'm hearing that if the vote is for no representation , pay goes up the next day to highest in the industry. I also hear this vote brings back the 401K the next day. If you don't give him a chance you'll never have another chance to get rid of the 1108 Tar Baby. If vote if favor of representation, we are going to sit status quo for an eternity while the CBA is negotiated at a snails pace.

Vote for no represtation and let's give him a chance to restore things back to the way they were before ********************finger and Baboo came in and wrecked the place.

 

[Rupert.]

We have a Union because of management's track record.

We have a union because of Shltfingers managements track record. Vote NO and get rid of these speed bumps to growth.

 

[Dirty Squirrel]

Give the man a chance by voting for no representation. If he doesn't produce in a year, vote in some sort of representation. I'm hearing that if the vote is for no representation , pay goes up the next day to highest in the industry. I also hear this vote brings back the 401K the next day. If you don't give him a chance you'll never have another chance to get rid of the 1108 Tar Baby. If vote if favor of representation, we are going to sit status quo for an eternity while the CBA is negotiated at a snails pace.

Vote for no represtation and let's give him a chance to restore things back to the way they were before ********************finger and Baboo came in and wrecked the place.

I agree.

 

[warlord19]

Let’s review a few things, buckaroos..…OK?
Flexjet was acquired about 2 years ago by Flight Options.
We were immediately informed on this board and in meeting FO pilots on the road that:

we would be flying broke/illegal airplanes…that’s turned out to be total bulls*it
rest rules would be fudged, abused, etc….bulls*it
we would be asked/encouraged/pressured into flying marginal/illegal trips…bulls*t
we would be doing rolling rest….bullsh*t
etc etc etc

Most everything posted on this site by the IBT acolytes, Cap’n Crunch, and FPOC members has turned out to be bulls*t.

You throw bulls*it on the wall hoping it will stick, and when it doesn’t you move to the next manufactured lie. And you ask folks to believe what you say? MORE BULLSH*T.

If you FO/Flex pilots want to be stuck in the rut FO guys have been in for so long, then by all means vote yes in this upcoming election. If you would like to improve your and your family’s lives with an almost immediate large pay increase and restoration of a 401K plan, you need to vote NO. Open your eyes. About 70 of you FO folks have been welcomed into the fold. Ask your Cap’n if he’s cool with sending a portion of YOUR dues to the nest of crooks in Ohio….they’ll be under Federal oversight again soon. Grow a pair and tell your “brothers” you are going to do what’s right for you and your family. Use your head…the IBT is a dead-end road.
WL

 

[imacdog]

^ The words of desperation.

 

[Bjtdrvr]

I still have not heard anything to dispute the facts of KR's actual actions WL.

 

[993_Pilot]

Let?s review a few things, buckaroos..?OK?
Flexjet was acquired about 2 years ago by Flight Options.
We were immediately informed on this board and in meeting FO pilots on the road that:

we would be flying broke/illegal airplanes?that?s turned out to be total bulls*it
rest rules would be fudged, abused, etc?.bulls*it
we would be asked/encouraged/pressured into flying marginal/illegal trips?bulls*t
we would be doing rolling rest?.bullsh*t
etc etc etc

Most everything posted on this site by the IBT acolytes, Cap?n Crunch, and FPOC members has turned out to be bulls*t.

You throw bulls*it on the wall hoping it will stick, and when it doesn?t you move to the next manufactured lie. And you ask folks to believe what you say? MORE BULLSH*T.

If you FO/Flex pilots want to be stuck in the rut FO guys have been in for so long, then by all means vote yes in this upcoming election. If you would like to improve your and your family?s lives with an almost immediate large pay increase and restoration of a 401K plan, you need to vote NO. Open your eyes. About 70 of you FO folks have been welcomed into the fold. Ask your Cap?n if he?s cool with sending a portion of YOUR dues to the nest of crooks in Ohio?.they?ll be under Federal oversight again soon. Grow a pair and tell your ?brothers? you are going to do what?s right for you and your family. Use your head?the IBT is a dead-end road.
WL

More BS from WL.

Perhaps some of what you say is true, but that is mostly because there is still a threat of a union hanging over KR's head. If the union is voted out, you will see all those things come to fruition. As for 70 pilots being welcomed into the fold, you mean being asked to sit on their hands and read a checklist, instead of actually getting to fly an airplane? I challenge you to put your money where your mouth is... I say that the teamsters will not be under federal oversight, anytime soon. How much are you willing to wager? I'll make another wager with you too. I bet that Onesky/DAC/Flexjet never sees a a supersonic Aeron AS2. Kenn Ricci loves to get the press and be in the spotlight, especially at NBAA, but even if that design makes it to production, we won't see any of them. Heck, I'd love to lose that bet, but sadly, I know I won't. Should we give him a year based on his views of seniority?... because that's a joke at Flex. You have to "interview" to get ahead in the Red-Label program. Or should we give Kenn a year based on the rumor of promises of raises, 401k restoration, etc. that he has made? Because one only need to look at his history during the RTA merger to have an expectation of how he will behave after a NO vote in the Flex/Flops merger. Shall I run down the list for you of everything the RTA pilots lost?... I know you have already seen what the Travel Air pilots lost, so I won't bore you with the long list. The FO pilots have been stuck in a rut simply due to KR's behavior. He has had the benefit of low salaries with his workforce way too long, and we are still in a rut? ... that is probably the only thing that has kept us in business. Without a union, it would simply be his way (operating in the gray areas) or the highway. Truth.