freightdoggie
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Re: Upgrade time at Net Jets In Beechjet
- Thread starter freightdoggie
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Starman
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- Oct 14, 2002
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The pilots at NetJets, through a grass roots campain, held off bidding on that particular bid for 400XP Captain in order to bring 117 of their brothers up to Captain's pay. It was the start of the revolution at NetJets.
Tonight, we witnessed the first tentative agreement going down in flames. 82% of all voters told NetJets and Local 284 that this contract proposal was unacceptable. That number is even more amazing considering the massive selling effort that Local 284, the current MEC and the company undertook to get us to buy it.
In November we will redo the MEC election and a new leadership team will take the helm. Teamster's Int'l has gotten involved in order to make sure that the wishes of this pilot group are protected. No new negotiations will take place until the new MEC takes office.
Mr. Boisture, Harold Powell and members of the current MEC, thank you. Your efforts have finally generated a cohesive pilot force that will accomplish much more than what could have happened had you guys just presented us with a mediocre contract. This was so bad that it unified the masses. Again, thank you.
Tonight, we witnessed the first tentative agreement going down in flames. 82% of all voters told NetJets and Local 284 that this contract proposal was unacceptable. That number is even more amazing considering the massive selling effort that Local 284, the current MEC and the company undertook to get us to buy it.
In November we will redo the MEC election and a new leadership team will take the helm. Teamster's Int'l has gotten involved in order to make sure that the wishes of this pilot group are protected. No new negotiations will take place until the new MEC takes office.
Mr. Boisture, Harold Powell and members of the current MEC, thank you. Your efforts have finally generated a cohesive pilot force that will accomplish much more than what could have happened had you guys just presented us with a mediocre contract. This was so bad that it unified the masses. Again, thank you.
There will be NO MORE 2 month upgrades, please don't mislead anyone thinking about coming to NJA. Realistic upgrade time will be in the 4-5 year range. We are so top heavy with captains it's silly. There won't be another by pass bid for the 400xp.
So, if the interview team says 1 yr upgrades, DO NOT believe them. I repeat DO NOT BELIEVE THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So, if the interview team says 1 yr upgrades, DO NOT believe them. I repeat DO NOT BELIEVE THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I am curious if this grassroots effort of bypassing 117 FOs to get the bridge pay will pay off. I can't believe that there were no rules in place in the current contract to avoid that from taking place. Will this help you negotiate higher captain wages in a new TA? I would imagine that the company now would have to consider paying 117 additional FOs captain bridge pay who should otherwise not be receiving the additional pay. It appears that diluting the pot with pilots being paid for positions that they do not actually hold lowers what could be available to give to those senior pilots who have dedicated more time to the cause. If I was a senior NJA pilot I would have very mixed feelings about this grassroots effort. Don't get me wrong. I think it was great that you all stood together. That RARELY ever happens. I hope it all works out for everyone.
I also can not believe that actual pilots at NJA that monitor this board have not stood up and told NETJETWIFE to cool it. I know that there are more intelligent NJA PILOTS who are closer to the TA issue than she is. After reading her many messages, it is my impression that she is very disgruntled about what her husband is paid. Sorry to hear about your 7 year old car YOU definately deserve a new one immediately. After all your husband is a professional pilot working for the company for a year and a half. It is also apparent that he accepted the job in hopes for a GREAT contract with lots of money. I have many friends that have been with NJA for 6-7 years longer than your husband. They have dedicated and sacrificed more to a strong contract than you or your husband can ever claim. I don't see them or their spouses complaining and ranting as much as you have. It appears your husband chose NJA hoping for a quick and easy payoff under a new contract. No one forced him to work there and no one is forcing him to stay there. If he only made $28G last year and it is not enough, tell him to QUIT. You brag about him to be the superman of aviation. I am sure he could leave tomorrow and make at least 5 times what he did at NJA. It sounds like you are just upset because he gave up many more lucritive options in hopes of a jackpot contract written on the backs of those senior to him. They don't even bitch as much as you by the way. Your husband took a gamble and it did not pay off. That's life. I think it is great that she supports her husband. I think her voice should be at home between him and her family. I don't think it is her place to act as a voice for the pilots at meetings, on this board or in SU. If she shares the same opinions as most of you that is terrific. If her husband is as passionate about the issues as she is, then let him lead the fight. I have never read a post by him yet. She does have her right to her opinion and to express it as she chooses. It is just getting very old! You also seem very sexist as well. You claim to have a support group. the wives club. You say that you have not had any husbands of female pilots approach you for membership yet. You say that once they do you will rename it the spouses club. GET OFF IT! Do you really think that a guy/husband is going to call you and say can I join your wives club? You also generally address pilots as if they are all males. It appears you only have your own interests in mind. You complain about the contract because it is bad for you and you started a wives club because it is good for you. NETJETWIFE, don't belittle flight attendants as if they should not be paid what they are. Have you served time a a crewmember of any capacity on any aircraft? I agree that FO pay at NJA is low. That actually is an industry epidemic. Just because F/As don't have a certificate in their pocket makes them no less meaningful. They are also professionals and also go through a great deal of training. They go on the road the same as everyone else and put up with just as much BS as the pilots they serve along side with do. They are a very valuable asset and also deserve more. They are a key to a seemless safe flight. I admire each and every F/A I have had the pleasure to work with. Also keep in mind that they will never make the larger salary your F/O husband will when he upgrades. They might be paid the same as F/Os now, but they will always be on the same pay scale for the remainder of their careers.
THE BEST OF LUCK TO ALL OF YOU THAT WORK FOR NJA! I HOPE YOU GET A GREAT CONTRACT IN A SHORT TIME!
I also can not believe that actual pilots at NJA that monitor this board have not stood up and told NETJETWIFE to cool it. I know that there are more intelligent NJA PILOTS who are closer to the TA issue than she is. After reading her many messages, it is my impression that she is very disgruntled about what her husband is paid. Sorry to hear about your 7 year old car YOU definately deserve a new one immediately. After all your husband is a professional pilot working for the company for a year and a half. It is also apparent that he accepted the job in hopes for a GREAT contract with lots of money. I have many friends that have been with NJA for 6-7 years longer than your husband. They have dedicated and sacrificed more to a strong contract than you or your husband can ever claim. I don't see them or their spouses complaining and ranting as much as you have. It appears your husband chose NJA hoping for a quick and easy payoff under a new contract. No one forced him to work there and no one is forcing him to stay there. If he only made $28G last year and it is not enough, tell him to QUIT. You brag about him to be the superman of aviation. I am sure he could leave tomorrow and make at least 5 times what he did at NJA. It sounds like you are just upset because he gave up many more lucritive options in hopes of a jackpot contract written on the backs of those senior to him. They don't even bitch as much as you by the way. Your husband took a gamble and it did not pay off. That's life. I think it is great that she supports her husband. I think her voice should be at home between him and her family. I don't think it is her place to act as a voice for the pilots at meetings, on this board or in SU. If she shares the same opinions as most of you that is terrific. If her husband is as passionate about the issues as she is, then let him lead the fight. I have never read a post by him yet. She does have her right to her opinion and to express it as she chooses. It is just getting very old! You also seem very sexist as well. You claim to have a support group. the wives club. You say that you have not had any husbands of female pilots approach you for membership yet. You say that once they do you will rename it the spouses club. GET OFF IT! Do you really think that a guy/husband is going to call you and say can I join your wives club? You also generally address pilots as if they are all males. It appears you only have your own interests in mind. You complain about the contract because it is bad for you and you started a wives club because it is good for you. NETJETWIFE, don't belittle flight attendants as if they should not be paid what they are. Have you served time a a crewmember of any capacity on any aircraft? I agree that FO pay at NJA is low. That actually is an industry epidemic. Just because F/As don't have a certificate in their pocket makes them no less meaningful. They are also professionals and also go through a great deal of training. They go on the road the same as everyone else and put up with just as much BS as the pilots they serve along side with do. They are a very valuable asset and also deserve more. They are a key to a seemless safe flight. I admire each and every F/A I have had the pleasure to work with. Also keep in mind that they will never make the larger salary your F/O husband will when he upgrades. They might be paid the same as F/Os now, but they will always be on the same pay scale for the remainder of their careers.
THE BEST OF LUCK TO ALL OF YOU THAT WORK FOR NJA! I HOPE YOU GET A GREAT CONTRACT IN A SHORT TIME!
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Say what ????
Refresh our memories for us, Diver. What particular job skills do F/A's bring to the workplace ? Even the least experienced, most junior F/O at Netjets, brings a relative wealth of knowledge to the workplace. In NJW's case, her husband brings just a "little" more than that. Do you have ANY idea what is required, in terms of education and flight training before Uncle Sam entrusts an F-16 to you ? No, I am not current or ex-militiary. I have had the pleasure of flying with quite a few, and trust me when I tell you that no one, even slightly marginal in any facet of their flying game, makes it to the flight line. I do know several flight attendants, who 1 week prior to attending indoc., were styling hair, waiting tables, and working at a gym. Go back and reread your post. Unless you were trying to be funny, it holds no value. Perhaps you were at one time, or are currently involved with an F/A. This would explain your comparisons with OUR profession. The fact is, no real comparisons can, or should be made. I have nothing but respect for all the hard and thankless work, that virtually all F/A's perform. However, theirs is an UNSKILLED position, and will never be compensated otherwise. What's next, orderlies and nurses paid the same as surgeons ? Finally, and just for the record, not all, but most of the drivers on this forum wish we had more NJW's in our corner.
Refresh our memories for us, Diver. What particular job skills do F/A's bring to the workplace ? Even the least experienced, most junior F/O at Netjets, brings a relative wealth of knowledge to the workplace. In NJW's case, her husband brings just a "little" more than that. Do you have ANY idea what is required, in terms of education and flight training before Uncle Sam entrusts an F-16 to you ? No, I am not current or ex-militiary. I have had the pleasure of flying with quite a few, and trust me when I tell you that no one, even slightly marginal in any facet of their flying game, makes it to the flight line. I do know several flight attendants, who 1 week prior to attending indoc., were styling hair, waiting tables, and working at a gym. Go back and reread your post. Unless you were trying to be funny, it holds no value. Perhaps you were at one time, or are currently involved with an F/A. This would explain your comparisons with OUR profession. The fact is, no real comparisons can, or should be made. I have nothing but respect for all the hard and thankless work, that virtually all F/A's perform. However, theirs is an UNSKILLED position, and will never be compensated otherwise. What's next, orderlies and nurses paid the same as surgeons ? Finally, and just for the record, not all, but most of the drivers on this forum wish we had more NJW's in our corner.
If you actually read what I wrote you will see that I agree that NJA F/Os are underpaid. That does not mean that NJA F/As are overpaid. If you are saying that F/As are not a valuable asset I will not even get in this debate with you. Your comparisons at the end of your message are ridiculous. The very high majority of F/As that I have worked with have been in the profession for a very long time, have many valuable skillsets and are a huge asset. Your mentality and demeaning banter of other professions says alot. You don't seem like someone who has learned the fine art of CRM (CREW resource management). Many others in different professions have sacrificed and worked hard to earn the title professional. Don't think that you are the only one. Should NJA F/Os make more? Yes. Does that mean NJA F/As should make less, absolutely not. If you don't get that you are hopeless!
El Chupacabra
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2004
- Posts
- 527
" I would imagine that the company now would have to consider paying 117 additional FOs captain bridge pay who should otherwise not be receiving the additional pay. It appears that diluting the pot with pilots being paid for positions that they do not actually hold lowers what could be available to give to those senior pilots who have dedicated more time to the cause"
"TWO CAPTAINS ON EVERY FLIGHT "
That is what is advertised and sold to the Owners. Everybody passes the same PIC checkflights and medical exams with the exception that designated FO's do not do the 135.299 checkflight.
Sales material also brags about the 9000+ average hours and the former Air Force ONE and Marine One pilots we have.... Guess what... those with the most hours right now are FOs... as are some of the Marine One and Air Force ONE pilots! They are being SOLD but not compensated.
I think if they advertise TWO CAPTAINS they ought to PAY two Captains.
"TWO CAPTAINS ON EVERY FLIGHT "
That is what is advertised and sold to the Owners. Everybody passes the same PIC checkflights and medical exams with the exception that designated FO's do not do the 135.299 checkflight.
Sales material also brags about the 9000+ average hours and the former Air Force ONE and Marine One pilots we have.... Guess what... those with the most hours right now are FOs... as are some of the Marine One and Air Force ONE pilots! They are being SOLD but not compensated.
I think if they advertise TWO CAPTAINS they ought to PAY two Captains.
Maybe as part of the new TA something should be worked out not to issue type ratings until upgrade. Would that solve the problem? I don't think many would like that. I hope you all get a fair and balanced quick contract. Based on the above expectations NJA would be the only company I know of with a single captain only payscale for flight crews. That is not realistic. A very livable F/O payscale is in your reach. Best of luck.
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