I atended ameican flyers in hayward ca upon deciding to go else were for training I requested a refund which took four months to get and I only got after calling there national office ,when I went to get my refund I was threatened and pushed out of the office, after which the flight schools manager assulted racial slures and wanted to physiclly fight me, what are my rights and what can I do about this abuse from a part 141 flight school??
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racial prejudice from a 141 flight schoo
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First reaction - there are always two sides to every story.
Having been the C.P. of a small flight school for a very short time, I was amazed by the controversies that can occur in an industry built around providing enjoyment for the customers.
Let's look at the scenario:
#1 - it's American Flyers. All of us in aviation have just a slightly irreverent view of any firm that can afford to take out full page ads in every aviation publication every month. Flyers, ATP, Comair, Flight Safety, Pan Am....they all do it. These "companies" do not get huge advertising budgets by "giving it away". They charge real dollars. Generally, as in all of life, the watch phrase is "buyer beware". If you are going to a factory school, then you better be prepared to make the most of it - you have to work twice as hard to maximize each dollar you spend. These factory schools usually offer a fast paced curriculum. What you trade is this: You usually get a highly structured format, good airplanes and good maintenance on those airplanes. What you give up is flexibility, low-time (younger) CFI's and any personal attention that you may expect.
#2 - you had a disagreement. Something didn't work out as you planned or thought it should be. Now you have to deal with the financial end. Again you are dealing with a factory or big company. Give Ford $17000 for a new car, drive it for a week and try to get your money back because you are dissatisfied. Is this going to be an easy process? Give an apartment complex $1000 deposit and a months rent up front. Find out that the 0230 express train runs right behind your building. Go and get a complete refund and break the lease. Piece of cake - the manager will give you a complete refund on the spot, right? Business is built on making money. Cash-in-hand is about as valuable a comodity as exists. That's why these guys advertise so hard - to get your money. A dollar in my bank is paying me interest and helping my bottom line, a dollar in your pocket is doing me no good whatsoever. We all have to deal with this problem somewhere in life - none of us enjoy being on the short end of the stick, but we all have to deal with it. I was in a business and marketing class where the instructor was preaching the new tenet of retail - make the process of getting a refund so difficult that a percentage of the people will give up - it creates free money. Your telephone company knows this, your bank knows this, if your going to be a smart consumer, you are going to have to learn to be a squeaky wheel and it will cost you lots of time to get your money back.
#3 - So you did the right thing and kept at it. You went to upper management and forced the issue. You ended up successful in getting a refund. Well done!
#4 - The local manager was unhappy because his P&L (profit and loss) just took a huge hit by giving you the refund. You might have added salt in the wound by not being quite the professional. Were you silent when you got your money or did you decide to hurl a few remarks about the school and the process in front of an audience? Basically was the manager's attitude to you based totally on his/her own bias or did you turn the heat up a little in the room? My own maturity has taught me to be real quiet when things have turned in my favor, but a younger version of me would be so incensed by my trials and tribulations that I would have to give them a piece of my mind.
#5 - The racial thing. I know that there are some cro-magnums out there, but what....1% of the population?? More often than not, there is this "perception" of bias rather than the real thing. I am tired of "so and so was 'dissed". I'm sorry, you just called me, my school and my co-workers a bunch of retards and thieves. If I call you a lazy student that doesn't know his butt from a hole in the ground, that doesn't indicate racial profiling. But then.....there are truly bad people walking the planet that have biases running through their heads. Please just sort it out before you just use this abused trump card. Yes, there is still some discrimination....No, it is not as rampant as the media would have us believe.
#6 - OK, you have your money and you are out of there. So, was AMF so bad that other folks should be warned not to go there and for specific reasons. Detail the reasons - give specifics - and then start writing letters. The first place to deal with Businesses is the BBB or Better Business Bureau. I know it seems very insignificant. Think so? BBB ratings affect a firm's ability to get customers, get credit and even deal with their advertisers. In this day and age of litigation, even magazines have to be careful about who they accept ads from - someone with huge consumer complaints may be a fraud - the magazine does not want to be named as complicit. You can write to government agencies at the state and federal level. A single letter to the FSDO will do nothing, but twenty or thirty letters from enough different people will start someone in an agency to ask questions. It's like voting. One vote doesn't seem like much until your vote becomes the one that changes who the President of the US will be for the next four years. Your one letter isn't much. But when it is the letter that bursts the pendaflex file at the seams or topples the pile of letters on someones desk - it will get noticed.
Calm down, enjoy your victory, figure out how you are going to move forward. Good luck.
Having been the C.P. of a small flight school for a very short time, I was amazed by the controversies that can occur in an industry built around providing enjoyment for the customers.
Let's look at the scenario:
#1 - it's American Flyers. All of us in aviation have just a slightly irreverent view of any firm that can afford to take out full page ads in every aviation publication every month. Flyers, ATP, Comair, Flight Safety, Pan Am....they all do it. These "companies" do not get huge advertising budgets by "giving it away". They charge real dollars. Generally, as in all of life, the watch phrase is "buyer beware". If you are going to a factory school, then you better be prepared to make the most of it - you have to work twice as hard to maximize each dollar you spend. These factory schools usually offer a fast paced curriculum. What you trade is this: You usually get a highly structured format, good airplanes and good maintenance on those airplanes. What you give up is flexibility, low-time (younger) CFI's and any personal attention that you may expect.
#2 - you had a disagreement. Something didn't work out as you planned or thought it should be. Now you have to deal with the financial end. Again you are dealing with a factory or big company. Give Ford $17000 for a new car, drive it for a week and try to get your money back because you are dissatisfied. Is this going to be an easy process? Give an apartment complex $1000 deposit and a months rent up front. Find out that the 0230 express train runs right behind your building. Go and get a complete refund and break the lease. Piece of cake - the manager will give you a complete refund on the spot, right? Business is built on making money. Cash-in-hand is about as valuable a comodity as exists. That's why these guys advertise so hard - to get your money. A dollar in my bank is paying me interest and helping my bottom line, a dollar in your pocket is doing me no good whatsoever. We all have to deal with this problem somewhere in life - none of us enjoy being on the short end of the stick, but we all have to deal with it. I was in a business and marketing class where the instructor was preaching the new tenet of retail - make the process of getting a refund so difficult that a percentage of the people will give up - it creates free money. Your telephone company knows this, your bank knows this, if your going to be a smart consumer, you are going to have to learn to be a squeaky wheel and it will cost you lots of time to get your money back.
#3 - So you did the right thing and kept at it. You went to upper management and forced the issue. You ended up successful in getting a refund. Well done!
#4 - The local manager was unhappy because his P&L (profit and loss) just took a huge hit by giving you the refund. You might have added salt in the wound by not being quite the professional. Were you silent when you got your money or did you decide to hurl a few remarks about the school and the process in front of an audience? Basically was the manager's attitude to you based totally on his/her own bias or did you turn the heat up a little in the room? My own maturity has taught me to be real quiet when things have turned in my favor, but a younger version of me would be so incensed by my trials and tribulations that I would have to give them a piece of my mind.
#5 - The racial thing. I know that there are some cro-magnums out there, but what....1% of the population?? More often than not, there is this "perception" of bias rather than the real thing. I am tired of "so and so was 'dissed". I'm sorry, you just called me, my school and my co-workers a bunch of retards and thieves. If I call you a lazy student that doesn't know his butt from a hole in the ground, that doesn't indicate racial profiling. But then.....there are truly bad people walking the planet that have biases running through their heads. Please just sort it out before you just use this abused trump card. Yes, there is still some discrimination....No, it is not as rampant as the media would have us believe.
#6 - OK, you have your money and you are out of there. So, was AMF so bad that other folks should be warned not to go there and for specific reasons. Detail the reasons - give specifics - and then start writing letters. The first place to deal with Businesses is the BBB or Better Business Bureau. I know it seems very insignificant. Think so? BBB ratings affect a firm's ability to get customers, get credit and even deal with their advertisers. In this day and age of litigation, even magazines have to be careful about who they accept ads from - someone with huge consumer complaints may be a fraud - the magazine does not want to be named as complicit. You can write to government agencies at the state and federal level. A single letter to the FSDO will do nothing, but twenty or thirty letters from enough different people will start someone in an agency to ask questions. It's like voting. One vote doesn't seem like much until your vote becomes the one that changes who the President of the US will be for the next four years. Your one letter isn't much. But when it is the letter that bursts the pendaflex file at the seams or topples the pile of letters on someones desk - it will get noticed.
Calm down, enjoy your victory, figure out how you are going to move forward. Good luck.
FLGator911
Member
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2002
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- 16
Aki-
I hear Johnny Cochrane's looking for some new clients. Also, while you're at it, order piping hot coffee from McDonald's and spill it in your lap, slip and fall at your local grocery store, and sue your local bar because they have a "Ladies Night" on Wednesday but not a "Guys Night". Sorry, just tired of people with the "someone owes me something" attitude.
I hear Johnny Cochrane's looking for some new clients. Also, while you're at it, order piping hot coffee from McDonald's and spill it in your lap, slip and fall at your local grocery store, and sue your local bar because they have a "Ladies Night" on Wednesday but not a "Guys Night". Sorry, just tired of people with the "someone owes me something" attitude.
Timebuilder
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Mr. Irrelevant
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