Questions Regarding New Fleet Types for NJA in 2008

[On Your Six]

Can anyone summarize the incoming aircraft types for Netjets in 2008 (i.e., Hawker 4000, Encore+, etc.)? How many for each type can be expected in 2008? What will be replaced and what will be the net gain in total aircraft in 2008?

Also, just curious about any ideas as to why Netjets in the States and Netjets Europe have different fleet types? For example, I was in Luton awhile back and I spoke with a NJE pilot who mentioned that he was excited about the upcoming Falcon 7X airplanes entering the fleet this year. Any rationale or guesses as to why the Falcon 7X is a "better fit" for the European market than the US market? Is it because the aircraft competes directly with the G450 at NJI? If that is the case, why does NJE already operate GIVs and G550s? I thought I read that NJE would be getting 30+ Falcon 7Xs. Just curious about the rationale used in fleet planning.

 

[560NJA]

NJE's fleet has alot to do with politics over there so I was told but I'm sure some other nja guys have more info on that. As far as our fleet here, we have 431 a/c on the property and the projetction is 481 by 1/31/09. Most deliveries are 680's, encore +, H4000, some xls's and 900xp. vague i know but hope it helps

 

[Iam3rd]

From what I hear, NJ will be taking delivery of the first 50 of the 300 Cessna 162 Skycatchers it has ordered. And 70 of the 250 Diamond twins it has ordered. There was some fighting between NJ and NJI over who would get them. It was determined that after you filled them up with fuel, loaded the 2 pilots and flight attendent, there was no more available weight for passangers to make the international flights. So NJ won that battle. From what I hear, NJI thinks they will have the upper hand when they take delivery of the first 70 Eclipse Jets.

 

[mtpilot07]

I hate to send anyone away from this site but we know we have to use every resource. Airlinepilotcentral.com click fractionals then netjets will tell you the current payscales their fleet now and upcoming as well as number of pilots, etc. I use it for my info and this site for the chat and info I can't find from anyone but other pilots in chat. Hope this helps the site is free.

 

[Guitar Guy]

The first 2 Encore+'s came in 2007. Plan is for one per month through 2008. And as you are wont to say, it does fly nice and it's got great avionics.

Some of the aircraft purchases made for NJE are based on where they are located and where various manufacturers are located.

 

[On Your Six]

I hate to send anyone away from this site but we know we have to use every resource. Airlinepilotcentral.com click fractionals then netjets will tell you the current payscales their fleet now and upcoming as well as number of pilots, etc. I use it for my info and this site for the chat and info I can't find from anyone but other pilots in chat. Hope this helps the site is free.

Thanks for your suggestion - it is a great resource. However, I was asking specifically about net aircraft in 2008 (not beyond 2008). Just wanted a view of how many new types are entering the fleet during 2008 and how this might impact hiring. For example, how many Hawker 4000s are expected in 2008 and how many newhires will likely join the fleet as FOs? How many for the Encore+ or the XLS+, etc.? Just curious.

As for the Falcon 7X at NJE, I guess we will see a few in TEB, HPN, etc. when they fly over to the States. Looks like a great airplane - the political considerations make sense, but you would assume that a larger deal that included NJA would be feasible if there was a market for the airplane in the US. I am sure the 7X would garner interest among share owners in the US too... Looks like the Hawker 4000 will start service at both NJE and NJA - just curious as to why the 7X didn't make it into the NJA mix for now...

 

[cush]

I had some NJE guys in my DA2000 recurrent recently. They speculate a majority of the 7X's will be allocated to NJA. I also heard a rumor that specifically 18 of 30 will come here. But you know how rumors go. Only time will tell, nothing has been made official. Looks like a nice ride!

 

[Jafo73]

As for the Falcon 7X at NJE, I guess we will see a few in TEB, HPN, etc. when they fly over to the States. Looks like a great airplane - the political considerations make sense, but you would assume that a larger deal that included NJA would be feasible if there was a market for the airplane in the US. I am sure the 7X would garner interest among share owners in the US too... Looks like the Hawker 4000 will start service at both NJE and NJA - just curious as to why the 7X didn't make it into the NJA mix for now...

Also have been told that we got the first Falcons (2000) in part to help grease the skids in getting European approval to set up NJE. And like someone said, Europeans like European built planes and Americans probably like American built planes.

 

[captain dad]

I was told by a union buddy that a net gain of 52 aircraft for 2008. I have no idea if it is accurate. Don't know how many of each. It is a fluid situation. Depends on outside sales of old aircraft and returns to Cessna.

In general, however, we are still growing at a considerable rate. With a considerable rate of attrition.

 

[Guitar Guy]

And like someone said, Europeans like European built planes and Americans probably like American built planes.

I've been told a very similar story regarding the 7X's in Europe and not here in the States.

 

[johnsonrod]

I've been told a very similar story regarding the 7X's in Europe and not here in the States.

Sure, that makes sense, but NJE is also ordering a lot of Hawkers (big number of 4000s and 750/900s) like NJA. I think what Six is saying is that given NJA's current stable of Falcon 2000s (including some newer versions with the Easy cockpit), why not also add the 7Xs off the bat? Would the 7X compete with NJI aircraft? The fact that NJE orders a bunch of US-made Hawkers as well as 7Xs while NJA orders a bunch of Hawkers and no 7Xs (as of yet) is probably what is confusing. Plus, it's all run by the same parent company - right? Why not also include some 7Xs for the US operation (a bigger bulk order with discounts)?

I am sure politics plays a role but a bigger order for 7Xs by the parent company would probably have been welcome in France too.

 

[Jafo73]

Sure, that makes sense, but NJE is also ordering a lot of Hawkers (big number of 4000s and 750/900s) like NJA. I think what Six is saying is that given NJA's current stable of Falcon 2000s (including some newer versions with the Easy cockpit), why not also add the 7Xs off the bat? Would the 7X compete with NJI aircraft? The fact that NJE orders a bunch of US-made Hawkers as well as 7Xs while NJA orders a bunch of Hawkers and no 7Xs (as of yet) is probably what is confusing. Plus, it's all run by the same parent company - right? Why not also include some 7Xs for the US operation (a bigger bulk order with discounts)?

I am sure politics plays a role but a bigger order for 7Xs by the parent company would probably have been welcome in France too.

Not a flame, but what European company makes aircraft comparable to the Hawkers? And maybe they don't realize they aren't made by the British any more....

 

[skyismyoffice]

With a considerable rate of attrition.

Why the attrition?

 

[jonjuan]

Why the attrition?

Gotta do something with sixty-five 9-13 year old Ultras, 15CXs, , 20 800xps, 5 G-IVSPs with 9,000+ hours on airframes. Not to mention all the other dozens of other aircraft over 10 years of age. They tend to get a little cranky when awakened in the AM.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Retirements are happening. I have personally flown 2 last flights for 2 of our frames in the last 2 tours.

 

[captain dad]

Why the attrition?

Attrition does happen to both aircraft and pilots. We rotate A/C all the time. The Ultra fleet is probably the oldest but is still like new compared to say NWA DC-9 fleet. They are slowly being sold off / retired.

Also pilots do leave and retire. We have a lot of older pilots that came here after their airline careers. They do quit at some point. Plus some do decide to leave. Lately (2007) it has been relatively junior pilots and prior to the new contract.

Attrition last year was just under 100 pilots and has ranged as high as 130 or so in past years from what I have been told. So there is always some movement.

​

 

[gutshotdraw]

We've been told 5-6 airframes in 2008, mostly G-450's and a couple 550's.

Don't hold your breath on 7x's coming to NJA. My guess is they'll deliver only to NJE until NJA/NJI issue is completely settled (2010-2011).

 

[ozpilot]

Retirements are happening. I have personally flown 2 last flights for 2 of our frames in the last 2 tours.

Hmmm not something I'd be bragging about. Sounds like you need to review your landing technique