Questions Galore

[Cornelius]

I have a bunch of questions that I'm coming up with after doing some reviewing of the regs and AIM. I have my own guesses to some of these questions but I'm sure somebody out there can answer them. Some of them may be silly.

Question #1: If on an instrment approach and you are lost comm, how do you get your landing clearance if the weather is near minimums. Since squacking 7600 isn't an emergency, you can't deviate from the regs. I would land with or with out the landing clearance but that is just me.

Question #2: If you cancel IFR in Class Bravo, do you need to get a clearance to be in Bravo before you cancel IFR. Its a stupid question but I heard of one guy getting violated for cancelling IFR while in Bravo.

Question #4: How come 91.159 VFR CRUISING ALTITUDE OR FLIGHT LEVEL even mentions VFR in the flight levels. Don't you need to be IFR up there?

Question #5: You are being vectored to an ILS with no IAF or other feeder route typical of a big city. You lose your radios and you have no GPS, how would you get on the approach?

Question #6: How come a transponder is not required for IFR flight?

Question #7: You want to do some touch and gos but the ceiling is 1100 feet. The field technically isn't IFR but if you are at TPA of 1,000 ft AGL you are violating cloud clearance requirements since you are only 100 ft below the layer. Can you request special VFR or what?

 

[FlyinBrian]

#1.) Operate per 91.185... The landing clearance is implied I guess.

#2.) I guess you do technically need a clearace, but I can't believe they'd allow you to cancel your IFR and the violate you for not having a clearance without first advising you that your cancellation would result in violation.

#4.) there are certain exceptions that allow VFR in the flight levels for aircraft who are operating on an LOA with ATC . There are probably other exceptions as well.

#5.) Again, I think 91.185 covers this. You fly the assigned route, or if you're on vectors, you fly straight to the approach course. (I'd use the MSA circle!!!)

#6.) In uncontrolled airspace, you don't need to talk to ATC to be in the clouds. YOu don't need a clearance either, so you don't need a transponder.

#7.) Unless you're in uncontrolled airspace, you need to be on special VFR.

 

[Cornelius]

Thanks man.

Good Luck

 

[AWACoff]

As for VFR in the flight levels, it is clearly in the FARs and AIM. There is no Class A airspace over Hawaii (hence VFR in the flight levels), there is also no Class A airspace west of (this is where I get fuzzy) 165 degrees longitude...Check the book for this one. That's a great topic for the crew room as the blurb where VFR in the flight levels is mentioned is in the last portion of the applicable FAR. Who the heck reads the whole thing, eh?

 

[PHX767]

Landing Clearance after lost comm:

If you are in VMC conditions (like after breaking out on an approach) then you are supposed to land at the nearest airport. It would probably be the one you are making the approach to.

Vectored for an approach with out an IAF:

Good question - You cannot do that approach, so you have to go through the matrix of last route, route expected, etc. until you get down to "N/A" - and then pick one that you can do.

Squawking 7600 not an emergency - Hmmm. It is in the emergency procedures section of the AIM. If you are comm out in IMC you cannot declare an emergency right then. I think that would be in 91.3 "notifying ATC in writing of the deviation at the request of ATC, blah blah. Just because you cannot tell them you are having an emergency does not mean you aren't having one. And you don't have to "declare" an emergency to get emergency assistance in this instance. With a NORDO plane tooling around the terminal area you will be getting plenty of attention.

Ahh - Look in AIM 6-4-1 (b) - It is implied that it is an emergency if the PIC decides it is. In the airlines, the dispatcher can declare an emergency for you, but that's kind of N/A when you are giving dual in a 172.

All good questions.

 

[de727ups]

Lost Comm is an emergency...

In the old days you would squak 7700 for one minute and then 7600 if you lost comm. I think that changed but for me.....lost comm is an emergency. If you can't communicate with ATC and you want to declare and emergency...say to yourself "I declare this to be an emergency situation and will deviate from FAR's as necessary to meet this emergency"...there, feel better. It's within your rights to delare an emergency to yourself just as it's within ATC's rights to declare an emergency for you.

 

[MartinFierro]

In regards to the landing clearnace question...correct me if I'm wrong but I believe if you arrive at the IAF of an approach to your destination airport before your ETA on your flight plan, you must hold until your time arrives, then truck on in for the approach. If you arrive at the IAF after your ETA, then you can go straight in. This is why it is important when flying IFR to note your off time (takeoff time).

This is, of course assuming your whole flight is in IMC, otherwise as previously stated, land at the nearest airport when you can in VMC.

 

[de727ups]

Lost Comm is an emergency...

In the old days you would squak 7700 for one minute and then 7600 if you lost comm. I think that changed but for me.....lost comm is an emergency. If you can't communicate with ATC and you want to declare and emergency...say to yourself "I declare this to be an emergency situation and will deviate from FAR's as necessary to meet this emergency"...there, feel better. It's within your rights to delare an emergency to yourself just as it's within ATC's rights to declare an emergency for you.

 

[bobbysamd]

Landing clearance on Lost Comm

I agree with Martin. Good comment.

 

[Green Banana]

as for #7 for airpot touch and go with a 1,100 ft cig
B&G = Clr of clouds
C&D = special VFR Clr, or do a pattern at 600 ft agl

 

[LR25]

Landing clearance

When you near the begining of the appraoch you note the time to see if you are right around the ETA, if not you are suppost to hold until that time, maybe over the outer marker if it has a locator.

At that time you begin the approach inbound, you break out and land.

Remember, ATC is "expecting" you to do this. They are going to have everybody out of your way when it comes down to the piont that you are going to land.

One way to know what you are suppost to do when the time comes is to memorize a little acronym.

"AVEF"....................91.185

A= Assighned....Last assigned clearance.
V= Vectored......If being vectored, by direct route to the fix/airway.
E= Expected.....If not assighned a route, then do what ATC has told you would be expected.
F= Filed............And lastly, what you filed in your flight plan.

For some reason for years now I have remembered "AVEF"

Also below this in 91.185 there are some for altitude as well.

"AME"

A= Assighned.....Atl. last assighned.
M= Minumum......Min. alt. for that route.
E= Expected.......What ATC said will be expected.

Some people hate the acronyms, but others like them.

Hopefully it helps.

LR25

 

[MartinFierro]

Remember that the altitude for lost comm scenario is the HIGHEST of the last assigned, expected, or minimum. I learned the acronym MEA, to make it easy (Minimum IFR altitude, Expected, Assigned).

 

[MartinFierro]

Usually your clearance limit is the airport your filed for. You DO NOT hold until ETA. You are not at your clearance limit until your wheels touch the pavement. Do you really think you would hold over some busy airport waiting for your ETA? They want you down on the ground ASAP!

It is not about wanting you on the ground. True, you should land ASAP if in VMC. Absent that, it is about what ATC EXPECTS you to do, thereby making it safer for everyone around you.

True, when you pick up your clearance the limit is usually the destination airport. However, to do an approach absent communications, you must do a full approach (vectoring impossible). Thus, you must start the approach from an IAF. How many approaches have the airport as an IAF???? Few, if any. But let's assume it is an IAF for our approach. The regs clearly state "when the clearance limit is a fix from which an approach begins, commence descent or descent and approach as close as possible to the expect-further-clearance time if one has been received, or if one has not been received, as close as possible to the ESTIMATED TIME OF ARRIVAL as calculated from the filed or amended (with ATC) estimated time en route." (emphasis mine).

Furthermore, the regs state "if the clearance limit is not a fix from which an approach begins, leave the clearance limit at the EFC time if one has been received, or if none has been received, upon arrival over the clearance limit, and proceed to a fix from which an approach begins and commence descent or descent and approach as close as possible to the ETA..."

So in the case that the airport was indeed an IAF and if it were not, you would still have to hold at an IAF until your ETA.

Think of it this way, perhaps there are other things going on at the airport which need to be taken care of. ATC knows you're NORDO, and they expect you at a certain time. They may need that time to clear out the traffic, expecially if you are going into a congested airport. Getting you on the ground is an imperative, but it is safest when ATC can anticipate what you will do.