Question?????

[flyincheap]

Can a FAR 135 Chief Pilot fly on a turbo jet aircraft as Second in Command? Would this be a conflict on authority? This would put the PIC in authority of the flight, however isnt the Chief Pilot over the safety and operation of the certificate??
If an emergency arises in flight, do you see where this might create a major issue? Is there any regulations that govern this. I can find nothing in FAR 135.

 

[350DRIVER]

Yes
NO

happens more times than most are aware of.

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ps>> a chief pilot is designated to that position....

 

[flyincheap]

So is this legal per regulations? Do you think it is a wise move??

 

[350DRIVER]

As long as the chief pilot is qualified in the aircraft, current, etc,... Wise move? During captain IOE isn't there a "qualified" captain in the right seat.? Line check, observation check, etc, etc. When I a part 135 captain they would sometimes put a "qualified" captain in the right seat due to short crews.


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[cvsfly]

Is he dual rated (typed) in the aircraft? If yes then no legal problem. Nothing in regs about it. Why not, unless the Chief Pilot lets his ego go to his head. He should be able to accept dual roles. He should have that maturity and restraint. Now is he still responsible for the duties of Chief Pilot - yes. Is he going to let you plow through a Level 5 T-storm - I hope not. He can still offer suggestions without having to grab control from you. Is there a reason he would feel compelled to usurp your PIC authority in normal or emergency conditions?

 

[flyincheap]

My exact question. The Chief Pilot has to uphold his duties of Chief Pilot. How can this be done as acting SIC on a flight?? I know I am being **** here but our society, and govt agencies can be so litigious, I think allowing the Chief Pilot to act as SIC on a flight could create a serious issue.

 

[350DRIVER]

It does not create a serious issue and it does happen at numerous 135 operations. What is the problem with a CP flying right seat? It was pretty much standard for our CP to fly a few trips to make sure the new captains were ready and prepared to act as "captain"/pic" of the flight. The regulations do not prevent this as long as the reqt's are met pertaining to qualified/currency in a specific aircraft. I had one experience relatively early on years ago with a captain that should never have been acting as a captain in the first place, stalled the aircraft in imc, put plane into steep banks "accidentally", pax complaints, etc, so what was the solution? Have the CP fly with him, problem was then solved rather easily... Having the CP fly certain 135 legs does allow him to see his "products" first hand.

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[vetteracer]

Our operation operates KA-200s, we are all captains, and fly as a capt, co-pilot crew. The schedule dictates who is the acting captain for the day. So we play both roles. Our chief pilot is no exception, when he is scheduled as a copilot for the day, that is just what he is, a copilot. Since we are both captains in the King Air, there is more of a democracy rule in the cockpit.

SO How would you log this in your logbook.

Since you are on the certificate as a captain, do you log all time as PIC or only that time you are the scheduled PIC, or the time you are the manipulator of the controls?

Mark

 

[350DRIVER]

Our operation operates KA-200s, we are all captains, and fly as a capt, co-pilot crew. The schedule dictates who is the acting captain for the day. So we play both roles. Our chief pilot is no exception, when he is scheduled as a copilot for the day, that is just what he is, a copilot. Since we are both captains in the King Air, there is more of a democracy rule in the cockpit.

SO How would you log this in your logbook.

Since you are on the certificate as a captain, do you log all time as PIC or only that time you are the scheduled PIC, or the time you are the manipulator of the controls?

Mark

The King Airs are all type certificated for single pilot operations, you cannot legally log any SIC time in these airplanes unless your ops specs requires you to be onboard and acting as a sic. The insurance reqt's, pax requests for "two" up front does not over-ride the ops specs nor the type certification. At a former company we would hire relatively low time guys, put them through the required ground school, flight training, and sic check in the aircraft (king Air) however the ops specs didn't require them to be onboard so other than another "safety factor" of having them in that right seat they could not legally log the time as sic since all our captains were current and qualified for single pilot part 135 operations. This was more or less a pax added safety feature since they would feel more "comfortable" with two pilots versus the one.

If indeed your ops specs require a sic to be onboard then all legs that you are not acting as "captain" then you could log the time as sic, if not required to be onboard then you can only log the time that you are flying the legs in the left seat as "captain". I know many who would log the entire flight time as pic regardless of whether or not they were actually in that left seat since they were switching it up with another guy who was also captain qualified.

If the dispatch is stating that you were the designated "captain" for the trip then you should log the time as PIC.

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[cvsfly]

My exact question. The Chief Pilot has to uphold his duties of Chief Pilot. How can this be done as acting SIC on a flight?? I know I am being **** here but our society, and govt agencies can be so litigious, I think allowing the Chief Pilot to act as SIC on a flight could create a serious issue.

Read the Chief Pilot Duties & Responsibilities in your Ops Manual Section A. Ours says nothing about any duties that would relate to the cockpit. Your either PIC or SIC or some would argue none of the above when you are PNF in a "single-pilot certified aircraft with an operating AP and Ops Spec A015". Those on the logging flight time arguement - what about A015 disqualifies a company from using a qualified SIC anyway? Anybody with an aircraft without an AP (and no A015) and complying with 135.101? How do your Ops Spec read in regards to SICs. We use a BE200 2 crew Part 135, A015, PIC/SIC training program, 135 checks for both, CVR installed. POI recognizes this arrangemnet with nothing else in the OPS SPECS. Does the arguement come down to the wording in 135.109?