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Question for all of you AA Guys

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ace757
  • Start date Start date
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Ace757

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 2, 2003
Posts
267
Im not tring to start anything or flame, but you 777 captain rate is 13k a month? Isnt that on par with what the Jetblue A320 Captains make? And if this is true, what are the rates for say an AA 737 captain, or an MD-80 FO. Again, not trying to start anything, but when I heard that figure it sounded a bit low.
 
69% of the APA voted for industry bottom compensation, massive layoffs, and gutting of the scope provisions. In essence I think you'll see 100 seat flying transfered to AE and outsources like CHQ and TSA.

AA 777 CA $176hr x 75 guarantee $158k a year
AA 737 CA $142hr x 75 guarantee $128k a year
AA MD80 5yr FO $81.57 x 75 guarantee $73k a year

A lot of these guys are flying past 75 hours scarfing up as much time as possible, which is what the company wants. Allows more furloughs and delays recalls.
 
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WOW! Im sorry to hear that. Is there any light at the end of the tunnel? Do you know when you guys will start climbing back up again?
 
Look for the senior membership to sell out 100 seat flying to AE. Remember, furloughed union members can't vote, so the senior guys can do whatever they want with the parts of the contract that affect the most junior ones. That will virtually assure more furloughs and a much smaller mainline in the future.

If you're thinking about an airline career, don't, unless you like working for regional wages and no retirement for an entire career.
 
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I do not see how AE would be able to get the 100 seat rj flying (given the information below), but if it does happen, many of us that are furloughed from AA can forget about getting recalled for a LONG time. It is going to quite some time as it is, but if AE is able to steal this flying, many of us that are furloughed from AA can forget about ever going back to AA. It is a real shame to see what has happened (and what is happening) to the airline industry and the airline pilot profession in particular. I regret ever even getting into commercial aviation some eight years ago. I should have stayed in the military.



---100-Seat Aircraft


Another hotly debated and misunderstood subject is 51-seat and
greater aircraft. Prior to our latest agreement, APA operated
all flying of 71 seats and greater. American Eagle's ALPA pilots
operated anything of 70 seats or less.


During the discussions last spring that led to our latest
agreement, management wanted greater flexibility in their use of
commuter jets (aircraft with at least 45 but no more than 70
passenger seats).


Throughout the beginning of negotiations since July of 2001, one
of APA's primary objectives was to regain future 70-seat jets for
APA pilots. APA's Scope Committee, to their credit, had
predicted that a large percentage of future growth in U.S.
commercial aviation would most likely be in the 70- to 120-seat
jet range. Embraer was known to be developing a new jetliner
family of 70-110-seat aircraft, and even though they were still
in the planning stages, APA's objective was to ensure that any
agreement we reached would reclaim all aircraft of that capacity
for APA pilots.


In our latest agreement, we allowed management to have greater
flexibility with 50-seat jets in return for APA gaining rights to
ALL future aircraft of 51 seats or greater beyond American
Eagle's previously ordered 25 Canadair CRJ70s and 25 optioned
CRJ70s for a total of 50 airplanes. ANY other aircraft AMR
purchases with 51 seats or greater belong to APA pilots. Also,
in our agreement we have the right for APA pilots to fly all 50
of American Eagle's ordered and optioned CRJ70s if we can
negotiate an agreement with management to do so on a labor
cost-neutral basis.


Following the announcement of our agreement, our Scope
Committee's predictions came true, with both US Airways and
JetBlue announcing multi-billion-dollar orders for the new,
larger Embraer aircraft. More recently, Southwest Airlines
publicly expressed potential interest in acquiring Embraer
aircraft.


Unlike our previous agreement, APA pilots contractually own
51-plus-seat aircraft under our current agreement, with the
exception of the previously discussed CRJ70s. Since reaching our
agreement, we have had no discussions with management about a
100-seat aircraft or any other 51-plus-seat aircraft beyond one
brief comment. Management did mention during a meeting that
given Southwest's announcement and the orders that US Airways and
JetBlue had already placed, they would probably look into whether
a 100-seat airplane made sense to operate at American, but they
had no plans to acquire a 100-seat-sized aircraft at this time.
That was the only time management has brought the subject up and
APA has had no negotiations concerning acquiring a new aircraft
at American.
 
Can't APA demand that Eagle does not get any of the 100 seat aircraft. It seems like you guys would only be hurting yourselves if you went along with managments plans.
 
lost ground

It will take 2 contract negotiations before the major airline pilots can re-gain the lost wages and benefits eroded from their contracts in the past months. In this profession when you give up one inch of turf, you will fight for 10 years before you can re-clame it... This GIG is no longer the dream job that it once was.....It was once said that an airline capt's wages for the month would allow him to buy a new Cadillac. In today's world, you could'nt buy a used YUGO
 
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For all you furloughed AA guys and current AA pilots please send soundoffs to all the APA representitives making sure that all 100 seat flying stays at AA. It is amazing how many current AA pilots do not know about the furloughs happen on Mar 2. Even if you are on the street you can still send the APA messages. Stay informed and be vocal. You are the only voice for yourself and the other 2500 guys and gals on the street.
 
ACE757,

I believe we will give up about 15% in straight wages (current wages) plus a 4.5% May pay raise due in our contract (if this is agreed upon after May--then 20% straight pay cut)--and then another 10% worth of lifestyle issues (like giving up some vacation, maybe some per diem, maybe some 401K contribution, maybe a little productivity---like raising the cap from 75 to 80 hours, etc....). I wish we could keep it all, but now we have to compete with the likes of AA and UAL---and they can undercut our fares with cheaper labor. I think we will still be at or near the top in pay---but we only have 8 777s---compared to AA's 35 etc----so a lot less of our pilots hit that top pay scale at our airline. We ahve held out as long as possible--but it is hard to have such a large gap during bad times---and things will eventually come back--but we will be a smaller airline with less mainline jobs. Right now we have 3000 less pilots than pre-9-11---with 1060 of those being furloughed and the others retired.

As far as the 100 seaters, I have heard that Comair is trying to get some for themselves (via the RJDC)--but Dalpa will not give any up to them--we will probably just lower the wages like everyone else and fly them ourselves. So, after we finally get back our furloughs in 5 or so years---then we hopefully will hire ASA and Chataqua guys right into some sort of 100 seater......But who really knows? I don't....

Bye Bye--General Lee;) :rolleyes:
 
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General, I have always been a huge Delta guy. You guys are the one's who enspired me to become a pilot as a young kid. I would give an arm and a leg to work there, but these days its starting to look like I will have to now strive towards one of the LCC's with all thats going on into todays industry. Man has this profession changed in the past two years. I was talking to one of my roommates earlier tonight who is a finance major. I was trying to tell him what was going on in the industry with management seeking wage consessions from all of its pilots, and he said "Its all about the numbers, and not the people" He says who care about the people in the end as long as the company is profitable. Then I said "YOU ARE NEVER ALLOWED TO WORK AT MY AIRLINE" I always here him talking about how much money he is going to make in management because "he can save the company money" While he is planning out his path to future CFO, and how he is going to make millions, pilots are just wondering how to keep a descent wage that will reward all of the SH*T we had to go through to be where we are. People ouside of this profession think that pilots do not do anything. They think that it does not require much work or inteligence to fly a plane. They think we work 5 days a month. They dont understand all of the ongoing training, and the medicals, and the furloughs. Therefore no one will bat an eye if management wants to take away 30% or more of pilots wages. To these people we are just overpaid computer programers.
 
and it's not going to get better.....if it's money, benefits, and quality of life that you seek.....consider changing profession. If you are indeed interested in becoming an Airline Pilot... Prepare your-self for never ending heart breaks. Everything I do when I'm strapped to the seat is awsome. Once I leave the seat, the BS begins to flow.
 
It's not a major.....just treading water for now.........
 
ACE757,

I still love what I do. I can't think of anything else I would rather do. These things come in cycles, even though this one is a rather large dip, but most of the Majors will probably make it, and some of the LCCs are going to get bigger---but people will always need to fly and there will be airlines taking them places. We will lose some things this time, and we will gain back things slowly---but we will get them back. Just relax and try to enjoy flying. It is still a great job---it just takes longer to make the same money as before.......

Bye Bye--General Lee;)
 
Draginass--You nailed it on the <100-seaters. We ex-TWA types are whistling past the graveyard hoping CC won't get changed while the "natives" are busy flying their butts off trying to make ends meet. (Whatever you think about pilot's pay, the cuts taken in May could devastate your finances.)

No one is really concerned since the >51-seat flying is "guaranteed". Yeah, my CA seat was guaranteed as well as my furlough protection.:rolleyes:

I'm hoping not to "have" to come back to AA but a bunch of my friends(TWA AND natives) will. The slide has to be stopped. Good luck.TC
 

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