Question about Delta CH 11 and Comair

[jetflyer]

If DELTA goes into Chapter 11 and drags Comair pilots in with them, can COMAIR's unionized employees be FORCED to take paycuts against their wills?

What happened to the WO's at US AIRWAYS? Were the WO's forced to take pay cuts??

Jet

 

[chperplt]

If DELTA goes into Chapter 11 and drags Comair pilots in with them, can COMAIR's unionized employees be FORCED to take paycuts against their wills?

Absolutely. But...GG did say in a WSJ article last Thursday that he doesn't think concessions from DCI will be need at this point. Now, that can change, and probably already has...but that's what he said.

 

[AirBill]

If DELTA goes into Chapter 11 and drags Comair pilots in with them, can COMAIR's unionized employees be FORCED to take paycuts against their wills?

It's my understanding that, under current labor law, that is not legal. Lorenzo did that to Continental in the 80s, and it's my understanding that Congress closed that little loophole after that.

But I could be wrong.

 

[drag]

AirBill, I'm afraid you are wrong. The new method used is the 1113. The Judge has to aprove managements contract changes/elimination. TWA pilots complanined about this 1113 rule when dealing w/ AA. This fell on deaf ears at national ALPA. I guess they figured it couldn't happen to them.....ooops

 

[acarpe3448]

I am normally very against most anything to do with Comair and the RJDC crowd. However, in this case it is my opinion that I hope they leave their pay rates and work rules alone. If the courts start cutting up the Comair contract that will only make it more attractive to shift flying over there. In this case, I hope the rates stand as is.

 

[acarpe3448]

Did I just say that! Dang that was harder to write than I thaught it would be.

 

[chperplt]

I hope the rates stand as is.

Did you want the rate to stay the same so the flying won't shift, or so you don't start flying your MD80 for what our 70 seat guys are being paid??

 

[General Lee]

A 35% pay cut (which is likely) will still give us rates in the MD88FO seat of your CRJ Capts. With the mass exodus of Capt early retirements also likely, a lot of people will move up on the next bid. Then guys will have to choose-----better pay on a larger piece of equipment, or better lifestyle. (reserve will be a pain, especially for commuters)


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[WhiteCloud]

A 35% pay cut (which is likely) will still give us rates in the MD88FO seat of your CRJ Capts. With the mass exodus of Capt early retirements also likely, a lot of people will move up on the next bid. Then guys will have to choose-----better pay on a larger piece of equipment, or better lifestyle. (reserve will be a pain, especially for commuters)


Bye Bye--General Lee

Keep raising the bar for us General.

 

[AirBill]

AirBill, I'm afraid you are wrong. The new method used is the 1113. The Judge has to aprove managements contract changes/elimination. TWA pilots complanined about this 1113 rule when dealing w/ AA. This fell on deaf ears at national ALPA. I guess they figured it couldn't happen to them.....ooops

Doh!

Thanks Drag.

 

[701EV]

chperpltQuote:
If DELTA goes into Chapter 11 and drags Comair pilots in with them, can COMAIR's unionized employees be FORCED to take paycuts against their wills?


Absolutely. But...GG did say in a WSJ article last Thursday that he doesn't think concessions from DCI will be need at this point. Now, that can change, and probably already has...but that's what he said
chperplt,

Not absolutely, it all depend how Comair and ASA were set up when the two companys were purchased by Delta.

701EV

 

[michael707767]

Keep raising the bar for us General.

Yeah, even if airlines like CMR do not take pay cuts now, good luck on your next contract. If you think sh*t doesn't roll downhill, you are kidding yourself.

 

[WhiteCloud]

Yeah, even if airlines like CMR do not take pay cuts now, good luck on your next contract. If you think sh*t doesn't roll downhill, you are kidding yourself.

That "uphill" mentality isn't really going to count for much when searching for another job. Maybe with CMR?

 

[WSurf]

Here's what happened at WO's US Airways. We took about 5% pay cuts with no change in work rules (thank god). You folks at ASA and Comair will take pay cuts if the Delta boys do. I am sure once Delta goes Chpt.11 the Delta WO's will be included in there. You have two options here, you can work with management (thats a joke) and come up with conessions, and if you don't like them. Well now you can roll the dice with the bankrupt. judge! You will have to present your case, it could be better then delta's management offer(what you want), or it could be worse (what delta wants). And that contract will be enforced upon you.
US Airways was able to divide and conquer the 3 WO's. They dangled the RJ carrot at us, and we all bite like a bunch of fools. We were told that if we didnt sign on, we would be out of business (kinda like a gun at our heads). If we did sign on, then we get all the Jets we want. LOL, PDT/ALG got none and only PSA got them. Plus it didn't help having MESA and other Contract Carriers ready with teeth showing to rape our flying and take our jobs. Now back in Chapt.11 if they come to us with more consessions I hope we have the balls to stand up this time (maybe take that same gun at our heads, grab it, and shove it up Groups rear-end and unload, and when finished reload and continue).
Best advice, have a good line of communication between Comair/ASA unions. Don't get into the back stabbing frame of mind. Delta will offer goodies to the one group who takes the bait.
Its sucks, but you guys have more going for you then the WO's at US Airways did! You have RJ's already, and not as many contract carriers!
Good Luck ( we need it)

 

[701EV]

Wsurf,

Thanks for the info,

Fortunately the Comair and the ASA MEC have an excellent relationship.

701EV