Question about Cirrus "airshares"

[gflyer]

It's important to note as well that many of the AirShares clients are not pilots themselves. So by "owning" your own aircraft you can hire a pilot to fly for you.

 

[Alin10123]

It's important to note as well that many of the AirShares clients are not pilots themselves. So by "owning" your own aircraft you can hire a pilot to fly for you.

Wait... if you rent a plane you aren't allowed to hire a pilot to fly it for you?
Can't he get checked out and rent it and fly you around?

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Well... accoridng to the airshares i believe their maximum package is 175 hours or something/year of ownersship. The more hours you fly, the bigger ownership % you have to buy which means larger down payment, then the larger monthly fee you pay too. You also pay more fuel. No matter how many hours you fly with them, it doesn't get any cheaper when you break it down into how many hours they get. It always works out to be around $210/hour when you haven't even factored in depreciation.

With renting this place i'm looking at has a few planes available and they usually arent' booked. It you book 24-48 hours in advance you can almost always get a plane. Plus if you rent there's no upkeep, no paying for fuel, and none of that.

So... still dont understand why one would do that instead of renting. Even if yuo've got the money to burn... still doesn't make sense. One doesn't get rich by making poor decisions like that.

Just some clarification on the subject. At Airshares, the price of fuel is embedded into the hourly rate (same as renting at an FBO). There are two ways to fly at Airshares. One is the equity avenue where you pay for a piece of an airplane than have a monthly management fee as well as an hourly rate. The second is the lease option where you pay a non-refundable lease fee up front (much smaller than if you put down money for the equity piece) and then pay higher hourly rates to compensate for the fact that you are leasing and you don't own the aircraft. The experience is the same, however, whether you lease or own...it is just your all in costs that will be different. Some people just don't want to plop down 1/6th of the price of a Cirrus and would prefer to retain their capital in their pockets for other uses (and don't mind the incremental cost increase to lease as a result).

Why go with AS over renting? Several reasons. The planes will generally be kept in much better condition, better availability, more relaxed rules as far as how long you can have the plane, sense of community with the other owners, good training, the ability to use any Airshares plane at any Airshares location around the country (they are growing fast), etc. Is it cheap? Absolutely not. Is it cheaper than owning a Cirrus outright? Yes, if you only fly 50-100 hours per year. Is renting easier and cheaper? Could be. Depends on your mission and how often you need the airplane and for how long. There is no blanket right answer.

I used to instruct for Airshares. I have no ties to the company whatsoever anymore. Overall I think it is a great company and they are doing very well right now. I hope it continues.

Let me know if you have more specific questions and I'll do my best to answer them. If I can't, I'll forward them to a director at Airshares that I know very well and I'll post his response.

-Neal

 

[Alin10123]

Just some clarification on the subject. At Airshares, the price of fuel is embedded into the hourly rate (same as renting at an FBO). There are two ways to fly at Airshares. One is the equity avenue where you pay for a piece of an airplane than have a monthly management fee as well as an hourly rate. The second is the lease option where you pay a non-refundable lease fee up front (much smaller than if you put down money for the equity piece) and then pay higher hourly rates to compensate for the fact that you are leasing and you don't own the aircraft. The experience is the same, however, whether you lease or own...it is just your all in costs that will be different. Some people just don't want to plop down 1/6th of the price of a Cirrus and would prefer to retain their capital in their pockets for other uses (and don't mind the incremental cost increase to lease as a result).

Why go with AS over renting? Several reasons. The planes will generally be kept in much better condition, better availability, more relaxed rules as far as how long you can have the plane, sense of community with the other owners, good training, the ability to use any Airshares plane at any Airshares location around the country (they are growing fast), etc. Is it cheap? Absolutely not. Is it cheaper than owning a Cirrus outright? Yes, if you only fly 50-100 hours per year. Is renting easier and cheaper? Could be. Depends on your mission and how often you need the airplane and for how long. There is no blanket right answer.

I used to instruct for Airshares. I have no ties to the company whatsoever anymore. Overall I think it is a great company and they are doing very well right now. I hope it continues.

Let me know if you have more specific questions and I'll do my best to answer them. If I can't, I'll forward them to a director at Airshares that I know very well and I'll post his response.

-Neal

Hmm... interesting prospective.
However... are you sure about the no hourly charge thing? If you look at the following link, it will say that you have to pay "equity" and then "monthly maint" and then "hourly use fee" which fluctuates with the fuel prices.

http://www.airshareselite.com/airportsServed/documents/atlanta_SR22AAG.pdf

 

[U-I pilot]

Wait... if you rent a plane you aren't allowed to hire a pilot to fly it for you?
Can't he get checked out and rent it and fly you around?

Thats a back door 135 operation. Nobody is really gonna rent an airplane to someone who can not fly it. In a sense, it would be the pilot renting and then flying the trip which would be holding out and therefore not a legal commercial 91 operation. If a person owns the airplane, they can hire someone to fly it and that is not holding out since the pilot can not offer that service to anyone....its not his plane to do so....If he rents, he could rent for anyone....

I have seen people attempt to get away with this stuff at FBO's but really not a legal thing to do.... Now if the guy wants a flight lesson that goes somewhere logging dual, you might get around it as a cross country....

 

[Alin10123]

Thats a back door 135 operation. Nobody is really gonna rent an airplane to someone who can not fly it. In a sense, it would be the pilot renting and then flying the trip which would be holding out and therefore not a legal commercial 91 operation. If a person owns the airplane, they can hire someone to fly it and that is not holding out since the pilot can not offer that service to anyone....its not his plane to do so....If he rents, he could rent for anyone....

I have seen people attempt to get away with this stuff at FBO's but really not a legal thing to do.... Now if the guy wants a flight lesson that goes somewhere logging dual, you might get around it as a cross country....

I see. That's actually quite interesting.
So is it actually legal if i was a standalone CFI and a student wanted to fly so i went and got checked out at an FBO and they let me rent the plane?

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

The SR22 is a bad little dude. It is one of the few airplanes you will fly that is totally overpowered.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Hmm... interesting prospective.
However... are you sure about the no hourly charge thing? If you look at the following link, it will say that you have to pay "equity" and then "monthly maint" and then "hourly use fee" which fluctuates with the fuel prices.

http://www.airshareselite.com/airportsServed/documents/atlanta_SR22AAG.pdf

That is exactly what I said - "At Airshares, the price of fuel is embedded into the hourly rate." That hourly rate is the hourly use fee. In other words, you pay for 3 things - your equity piece, the monthly maintenance fee (which covers fixed costs) and then you pay for the direct hourly operating costs (fuel and oil) in the form of the hourly use fee. That fee will obviously change as fuel prices change but they don't change it that often. I thought you were implying that you pay an hourly rate and then, on top of that, pay for fuel yourself. You pay the hourly use fee and that covers fuel...so if you go on a trip and buy gas, you bring the receipt back and they credit your account for the gas bought. I hope that clears things up.

It works out to $229/hour for a 75 hour share...and that doesn't take into account the cost of capital and equity piece. Just the fixed and the variable over 75 hours.

-Neal