Promotion in the AF

[BeechScrub]

I read in the AF Officer's Guide that if you are passed up for promotion twice, you are automatically discharged. How does this affect pilots? If you desire to remain in the AF until retirement, can you expect to be given the opportunity to do so with a reasonable amount of effort? How does your MWS affect your promotion rate? For instance, does a UH-1 pilot at a missile range have the same opportunity for promotion as a viper pilot, assuming each pilot is equal is all other categories other than what MWS to which they are assigned?

 

[FAIP Freddy]

First of all good luck with your Air Force ambitions.

To answer your question you can stay in if you get passed over twice. The trick is that the AF has to offer you continuation each year in order to stay in. So lets say you get passed over twice as a Captain (O-3); the AF will most likely offer you continuation unless you've got some sort of felony conviction or something. The problem is that they have to offer you continuation every year. This would leave about 10 or 11 years to retirement at that point. Anything can happen in that time so the likely-hood of making 10 years with continuation is probably slim. It is possible though. I know of an O-3 who will retire soon, but he does not fly anymore? I think some DUI's or something who knows? The safest route would be to get promoted to at least major (which is not hard if you check off the right blocks (e.g. masters degree or squadron officer school). This way you will not come to the O-5 board until 14 - 15 years of service as an officer. If you get passed over at that point all you have to worry about is 4 or 5 years of continuation; which I think is a fairly sure bet. But again anything could happen.

You also asked about the promotion rate between major weapons systems (MWS) F-16 or UH-1/60. I don't believe there is a difference really. Fly what your heart and grades will allow. The real key is getting the right professional military education (PME) and as wide a range of jobs as possible. The promotion rate for my board (to O-4) was something like 87.6%. Interesting number though was that in this promotion board the pilots were promoted at a lesser rate than all other groups of officers. Go figure? I guess hard times in the civilian community don't bode well for the AF pilot in this regard. Good Luck!

 

[Merlin'05]

There can always be those freak promotions though. My Uncle was a Maj in the Army. He got passed over twice for LtCol and though he would end his time as a Major.

One day his commander called him in and said he was one of two people in the Army picked for LtCol in the same situation.

But, as you can see, that's extremely rare.

 

[DarinFred]

Promotion

I have an IP who is a 20 year Captain. I really don't know his story, but he is cool as hell to fly with and is an awesome pilot. I could care less about promotions if they let me stay in the cockpit for 20 years.

 

[rainman_02]

There was some recent rumblings about the up or out policy. I don't recall the details.


On another note, the current promotion zones (line of the AF) are:

Capt (pin on this year) -- Maj pin on in 2008
Lt Col pin on 2015 (2013 - 2014 BPZ)
Col pin on 2021 (2019 - 2020 BPZ)

 

[BeechScrub]

Thanks for all the great info so far. I guess my concern is that I'll get to O-3 or O-4, get passed over twice, and lose the retirement. I'm certainly dedicated to a great career and am going to do everything I can to progress.

I have some additional questions. What does BPZ stand for? How long is it between promotion boards?

Thanks.

 

[TR4A]

What does BPZ stand for?

Below Promotion Zone (Early)

I spent the last 12 years in the reserves and retired as an O-4. Decided not to get promoted and had 18+ years in when twice passed over. Sanctuary once you have 18 in. I think it is the same on active???

 

[CCDiscoB]

Why...

...would you want to do that? The only reason I could see staying in, as a pilot, would be if I had a bunch of prior service time, and I was close to retiring. Can you imagine how you would feel at the 18 year point. When all of your buddies are making 0-5 and 0-6. I'd get a Guard/Reserve job and take the severence $$ and get a type rating.

 

[firstthird]

I wouldn't worry too much about getting passed over in 10 or 15 years. In the Navy at least, most guys getting passed over for O-4 have something in their record that shouldn't be there (multiple DUIs or harassment charges). Even making O-5 doesn't seem to be too huge a hurdle.

I think you'll be more worried about the stay in/get our decision point that hits most pilots around 10-12 years of service and for most it has little to do with worries of getting passed over and is more about whether they still are having enough fun to enjoy serving with all the requsite pain that comes from deployments or whether they want to try civlant instead.

in other words, don't put the cart before the horse.

 

[JimNtexas]

Thanks for all the great info so far. I guess my concern is that I'll get to O-3 or O-4, get passed over twice, and lose the retirement. I'm certainly dedicated to a great career and am going to do everything I can to progress.

I made Major, so anyone can. Majors can retire at 20, and many are offered continuation (although why anyone would stay in as a faded Major is beyond me).

If you commit some crime or really p.o. your boss and then get passed over for O-4, you just join the reserve to make up the balance of your 20.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. If you will just learn golf, stay under the weight limits, and comit no crimes you've nothing to worry about.

 

[jstars135]

It looks like my "MENTORS" have failed me. I committed no crimes, stayed under weight, never pissed off anyone important, went to SOS, got the Masters, upgraded on time, etc and here I am a 6 time passed over Captain. I thought it was my moustache. Now, I find out its the Golf thing. That's where I missed the boat, I guess.

 

[Kikuchiyo]

Everything you read in this thread will be out of date by the time you come up for promotion. The AF promotion timelines have been shifting earlier and earlier over the last few years.

I was passed over for O-5 at the 16 year point. I took the bonus a few years ago thinking I had a shot at O-5, but not really having a choice (I'll come back to that later). The bonus paid $25,000 a year if I signed a contract commiting me to stay in to 20. Once you've made O-4, as a pilot, you'll be continued to 20. But as I said before, that could change within even just a few years. During the McPeak years, pilots that were passed over were given involuntary early retirement, and there was no bonus paid to remain to 20.

So why did I stay in? Simply due to timing. I took my first bonus at the 7 yr point, which committed me to 14 yrs. If I hadn't taken it, I'd've been grounded for the last 2 years of my time left in - I still had 2 years of commitment remaining before I could get out. So I couldn't reasonably turn it down. That kept me in to 14. Then they offered another bonus to remain in to 20.

Why did I take that one? Remember, every time you attend a training class, upgrade or PCS (move), you incur a commitment. Many people try to time their commitments out so they keep their options open at the end of each assignment. Unfortunately, my timing sucked, and I kept getting moved from bases being closed and qualing in new airframes before my previous commitment was up, so I incurred more commitment. When they offered this last bonus, I again had so much commitment remaining that to not take it would have been unreasonable.

I don't regret not making O-5. I get to fly for a living again, versus my peers who are sitting behind desks getting ulcers and not flying. I probably would have gotten out had my timing been different. Be careful with your timing, stay aware of your commitments, and don't let them run your career. As first third said, "don't put the cart before the horse." Besides, as I said at the beginning, all this will be out of date before too long.