Premier a flop?

[cezzna]

This thing was all the buzz awhile ago. I just haven't seen them around in any numbers. Are they selling these things? Or are they going to rename it the Starship II.

 

[mzaharis]

They delivered 30 in 2005. 37 in 2004. 29 in 2003.

This compares to Cessna, which delivered 18 CJ1s/CJ1+, 23 CJ2s, and 48 CJ3s in 2005.
2004 numbers were 20 CJ1s, 27 CJ2s, and 6 CJ3s.
2003 numbers were 20 CJ1s and 27 CJ2s.

I'll leave it to you to decide which Cessna models are analogous to the Premier, and what constitutes a flop or a success.

EDIT - corrected 2004 number from 34.

 

[User546]

I'm thinking they're going to rename it the "Starship II".

Our company demo'ed one about a year and half ago, and it seemed to be a good airplane, but it wasn't anything special by any means. Had some bells and whistles up on the flight deck, but outside of that it wasn't that impressive. Our guys didn't like the cabin or seats in the back either.

And frankly, it's an terribly ugly corporate aircraft. It always resembled a pregnant guppy to me. The boss only wants two things... to get their fast, and to have an airplane he can look good getting off of. The Premiere is marginal on the first, and hands-down a flop on the last.

I've been thinking a lot of since that time that I haven't seen hardly any of them on the ramps where we've gone. In the past year and a half I've seen no more then 3 out of probably 75-100 FBO's that we've gone.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Back in my corporate days after furlough our company looked at the premier. Nice airplane but seriously lacking in the performance department. Fairly fast but you could do either passengers on a short trip off a long runway, or go empty on a longer flight off a shorter runway....but you could not do both.

We ran the numbers right out of the Beech sales performance booklet........Runway hog big time with anykind of elevation or temperature.

I think they just upped the power on this years model (read something about it) but I do not know if it fixed the problem.

As a side note, I was curious after going through it and compared it to my 737 manuals, as it turned out, the 737 had better short field capability in some cases than the Premier did! (And that was the old 200 model with much smaller engines than the 300 on up!)

 

[cezzna]

It sounds like they are putting them out, I figured the numbers would be lower, since I have'nt seen many of them.

 

[Groundpounder]

I think they would work pretty good for an owner/operator, i.e. hauling the wife and 1.5 kids around, but they are very limited in the traditional corporate flight department area.

 

[SCT]

"StarShip II"....now that's funny!

I always thought Beech coud have designed a better looking a/c, since it was a 'clean' paper concept.

 

[FlyFlyFly]

I have heard the brakes are pretty weak as well.

Looks aren't everything, but ugly is... know what I mean?

 

[On Your Six]

Looks odd with the high profile landing gear - although the cabin looks comfortable in the pictures, etc. I've heard that its performance is also lacking in terms of range. I guess you get what you pay for...

I know Avantair actually operated a few as side-aircraft for its P180 fleet (coverage for broken Avantis) and eventually dumped them because of maintenance issues I believe. Be interested to hear what actual Premier pilots think of it relative to other aircraft they have flown...

 

[mannyaplus11]

I flew the Premier for a few months. All accounts are accurate. This is a 12500lb airplane. So, with full tanks, you can legally only carry one passenger. Fill the cabin, take 1200lbs of fuel off. That gives you about 800nm range at cruise power settings. You can fly at LRC, but, that means you are flying at .66.
Cabin is roomy, large luggage compartment, nice glass cockpit, but, reliability has also come into question.

 

[sydeseet]

I think they would work pretty good for an owner/operator, i.e. hauling the wife and 1.5 kids around, but they are very limited in the traditional corporate flight department area.

Well said. I don't see any F500 Chairmen giving a second glance at them but a well-to-do entrepeneur who wants out of his Malibu might find them to be just the ticket.

I agree - it's an UGLY airplane. It even makes the Beechjet look like Tiger's wife and I never thought they were a particularly handsome machine either.

 

[Mason]

Well said. I don't see any F500 Chairmen giving a second glance at them but a well-to-do entrepeneur who wants out of his Malibu might find them to be just the ticket.

I agree - it's an UGLY airplane. It even makes the Beechjet look like Tiger's wife and I never thought they were a particularly handsome machine either.

I always thought the Beechjet looks like crap on the ramp but after takeoff with the gear up it looks halfway decent.

 

[sperfly]

I think it looks like George Jetson's ride.

 

[some_dude]

Most well-to-do entrepreneurs care a great deal about looking good, and don't want to fly around in something that ugly.

Well said. I don't see any F500 Chairmen giving a second glance at them but a well-to-do entrepeneur who wants out of his Malibu might find them to be just the ticket.

I agree - it's an UGLY airplane. It even makes the Beechjet look like Tiger's wife and I never thought they were a particularly handsome machine either.

 

[f-5]

Friend of mine attented on of the first Flight Saftey Training schools for their early serial number A/C, here it comes, with the anti-ice on you lose 100 knots of airspeed in level flight......Later I ran into a gur from Beech/Ratheon and quized him on this little known sales nightmare....he says you only turn on the de-ice(anti-ice) and off quickly so as to avoid the drastic lass of airspeed. Please do not take my word for it though, since this is second hand information, but ask around......HAPPY LANDINGS.....YES IT UGLY....

 

[Raskal]

The company I work for demo'd one about 2yrs ago. Same impressions-not enough capacity/range. Don't know about comfort, but the thing is so friggin ugly it's almost a moot point.

 

[Say Again Over]

Starship II is great!:beer:

 

[avman]

As a foot note Avantair picked up the Priemier without doing thier homework ( as usual ) then they dropped the Premier, then, they wanted it back, then they didn't. Latest is they went to put it back on thier certificate. The first Avantair pilot to be in the "Starship 2" program even said this aircraft is no good. Raytheon then buttered him up with a fancy dinner, and a upgraded hotel room while in training. When he got back he was slightly reprimanded by the boss for "speaking the truth". ( typical Avantair policy )
According to the pilots and the dispatchers, they were always certain to break down before it finished a 5 day tour. The Primeir also has a history with the FAA with a nearly pulled certificate.
Compound it with is lack of impressive performance, and the fact it joins an already FLOODED market of unimpressive small corp aircraft, Avantair seemed to not only have picked an unsuitable aircraft, but WENT BACK to putting it on their certificate after having it removed.