Preferential hiring

[English]

There has been quite a lot of bashing of minorities and women on this board due to "preferential hiring practices" of the past.

There are members on this board that are both directly and indirectly involved in hiring at many companies. I'd like to know if there is a specific program in place at your airline, charter company or flight department to recruit or hire women and/or minorities.

I'm interested in reading about the hiring practices at companies that are CURRENTLY hiring. United is not hiring pilots, so please don't go there. Please, no stories about how your captain told you that a female first officer at your airline was hired at United 10 years ago. I'm interested in hearing from people in the know at jetBlue, SWA, ATA, AirTran, Aloha, any regionals that are currently hiring, and fractionals currently hiring (Citationshares, Flight Options). Part 135 and Part 91 operators that have a specific plan in place to hire women and/or minorities, please share here.

Let's get the facts straight rather than complaining about hiring practices of the past...

 

[blott]

You asked for regionals...

CHQ will be hiring like you've never seen as soon as the TA is passed.

B

 

[Gulfstream 200]

and someone is going to come on the internet and discuss hiring practices at thier company.......

I think they are a mystery no matter how you look at it.

 

[bobbysamd]

There are members on this board that are both directly and indirectly involved in hiring at many companies. I'd like to know if there is a specific program in place at your airline, charter company or flight department to recruit or hire women and/or minorities.

For that matter, what about older pilots? Especially those who took up the career later. Any plans to hire these pilots and/or address how you have engaged in age discrimination??

There is no doubt in my mind that regional airlines practice age discrimination. Search my other posts to learn my experiences.

Of course, no one will come on the internet and discuss hiring practices at their companies. They would not have the guts to admit that they've engaged in discriminatory hiring practices. Moreover, doing so might expose their companies to EEOC and ADEA actions.

 

[Caveman]

Bobbysamd,

It is not in a regional airlines best interest to discriminate against older pilots. In fact it would be economically smart to prefer older pilots. They don't leave so the company gets a good return on their training investment. They don't stay around long enough to be too expensive because of the age 60 rule. I know that you think you were discriminated against but the last time this came up there were plentry of examples from members of this board that had different experiences than yours, including me. I don't know why you weren't hired when your younger peers were, but these days there are plenty of 40 somethings being hired at regionals. In fact at our company (CMR) it appears that a newhire under age 30 is the exception.

 

[English]

No specific examples of programs currently in place at an airline that is currently hiring?

 

[English]

I posted this thread in response to a person who was complaining, in another thread, about how women and minorities are talking jobs away from him in particular and white men in general. Rather than argue with him without foundation, I thought I'd do some research and get the facts before spreading inaccuracies. I guess it is a useless point now, as he has deleted the offending thread.

Since there have been no responses, I'm going to assume my original hunch was correct, and that there are no airlines/charter companies/flight departments with preferential hiring practices in place TODAY.

Going once, going twice....

 

[bobbysamd]

Regional airlines age discrimination

Originally posted by Caveman
It is not in a regional airlines best interest to discriminate against older pilots. In fact it would be economically smart to prefer older pilots. They don't leave so the company gets a good return on their training investment. They don't stay around long enough to be too expensive because of the age 60 rule.

I sincerely believe that a bias exists against older career-changing pilots. The reasons you give are probably why they engage in age discrimination. The regionals do not expect pilots to stay; in fact, they hope they'll leave so they don't top out at scale and have them vest in their retirement programs. Both would cost them money, which, G-d forbid, they would have to spend.

Also, I believe the H.R. types who inhabit the regionals are not astute. They lack insight and perception. They have a specific model against which they evaluate applicants, and your resume can say "hello" to the wastebasket if in any way you are not an exact fit for that model. You don't stand a chance unless you're younger than a certain age, even if you meet every other standard The H.R. types don't realize, or don't want to realize, that perhaps older people might offer maturity, life experience and enthusiasm for the job. Moreover, I believe that many hiring types think that one is a dilletante and lacks dedication to aviation unless one started in aviation at age 15. That goes back to how these people lack astuteness, insight and perception.

Another example of that appeared in FAPA's Career Pilot magazine ten years ago. A hiring official of SkyWest was interviewed. Dale Merrill, who was Vice-President of Human Resources at SkyWest, stated that if a regional hadn't hired you by something like 2500 hours that you were labeled as "having problems" and in need of a "hard look." That is a narrow viewpoint, if I ever heard one, especially in light of the tough hiring times back then.

My experiences date back ten-thirteen years. However, I had a friend who was rejected by a regional three-four years ago, during those "good" times. He found out that he was rejected flat-out because of his age.

Companies get away with these practices because employment discrimination cases are hard to prove. The only thing they have to say is they felt that you were not qualified, even if your quals equalled or exceeded those of someone twenty years younger than you. They always hide behind the safety issue, even if the hidden agenda is some form of discrimination. H.R. people are coached not to write incriminating comments about you in their records. It takes a mountain of evidence to proof a case, and they cleverly bulldoze the mountain.

Call these anti-preferential hiring practices, if you will. There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that age discrimination exists at the regionals.

 

[habubuaza]

I know for a FACT that there was preferential hiring of women and minorities pre 9/11 at definately one major airline. I suspect that other's did too. I am ready for the bashing because I am not going to give the name of the Airline nor how I know. I know that sucks but that's life. Sometimes there is discrimination but it's not called that. The effort to bring minorities and women at this particular airline was an effort to be more competitive for lucrative postal contracts. The USPS did have a policy of dealing with companies that promotes diversity, Pre 9/11. I am not sure what the satus is now of awarding postal contracts but that's the extent of the information that I was allowed to receive. Hope it helps.

 

[Indigo]

There is no doubt in my mind that regional airlines practice age discrimination.

I spoke to a guy not more than a month ago who is 52 years old and was just hired by Frontier... and he wasn't going there from another airline.

I work for a charter company and although I have no insight into their hiring practices, it does not seem to me that they either give preference to, nor do they discriminate against women, minorities or older people.

 

[bobbysamd]

Hiring of older pilots

I spoke to a guy not more than a month ago who is 52 years old and was just hired by Frontier... and he wasn't going there from another airline.

Is this fellow a recent career changer? I am discussing hiring at the regionals and not hiring at the majors, nationals or turbojets. Frontier is at least a national or turbojet, if not a major.

The nationals, majors and turbojets do hire older pilots. Kit Darby made a big deal of it years ago as he trolled for new members. However, it was not stated that these older hirees were extremely experienced and qualified people who had been flying for many years and were not recent career changers. Some were corporate pilots, while others had been flying freight, at the regionals or were ex-military, etc. They were just finally getting their chances.

Once more, I'm talking about regional airlines and how they discriminate against new, older career changers. And, once more, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the regionals discriminate against new, older career changers.

 

[Indigo]

Re: Hiring of older pilots

Is this fellow a recent career changer?

I don't think so. It's not someone I know personally, just someone I met at an FBO. It seems to me that he had a pretty extensive corporate/charter background.

 

[100LL... Again!]

My former airline preferred to hire people who looked really funny in blue polyester...

 

[bobbysamd]

Non-career changer

Is this fellow a recent career changer?

I don't think so. It's not someone I know personally, just someone I met at an FBO. It seems to me that he had a pretty extensive corporate/charter background.

I didn't think so.

I believe that proves my point.

 

[English]

Bobbysamd,

No offense, but the age issue isn't part of my question to everyone here.

I asked if there is anyone here on this board with first-hand knowledge of preferential hiring practices at airlines/charter companies/flight departments in favor of women and racial minorities. Companies that are currently hiring only. No more stories of articles read ten years ago....

 

[ultrarunner]

Preferential hiring....

I read quite a bit about this topic, and find it quite funny at times...

To give you a slant, here is some background....

My wife is the Senior Vice President of Human Resources for a 1.5 billion dollar division of a 5 billion dollar corporation.

She handles all hiring at director level and above, including CEO's.

She and I have had this talk MANY times, and this is her take:

'If two candidates meet the minimum qualifications for the job, and all other issues being equal...personality, etc..., the "diverse candidate" will get hired. It's that simple. My wife supports a dirverse work place.

So I ask "well, what if you're hiring a Sales Director, and the WASP male has 10 years experience in that field and the diverse candidate has five years?"

Doesn't matter...the postion only requires five years experienc.


So now, apply this to the aviation sector. Take any airline that is currently hiring or has hired recently....

They are hiring FO's, except in some extreme cases, but lets stick to the hiring of FO's.

An airline posts the minimum requirements, all all heck breaks loose the furloughed WASP male airline pilot gets turned down in favor of the diverse candidate.

Well, ya know, the job didn't require 25,000 hours, in required 1500 tt and an ATP.

THERE YOU GO!

 

[Catbird]

Ultrarunner- I hope the Neurosurgeon performing brain surgery on your family member was hired with minimum job qualifications . And received the job per MS Ultrarunner always choosing "Diversity" over experience.

 

[ultrarunner]

I hear what you're saying, catbird, but we're not talking brain surgery. What we're talking about are, in the minds of management, entry level FO positions. And these positions have a minimum experience level and skill-set, and there is no reason to think a person with that will not be hired in favor of someone who far exceeds such requirements.

 

[CRJ puppy]

Hhhhmmm,

I'm a mid-life career changer, began learning to fly when I was 37. Started flight instructing when I was 41. In my short career I have been offered a job at every regional operator that I have interviewed with (and getting the interview has not been an easy task these past couple of years). I'm just an average white male who works to do his best at every job or position that I've ever held. Aviation is about career #5 for me, and I have always felt that my age was a benefit for me in this field.

From my perspective, age discrimination is a non-issue at this time in this industry.

 

[jergar999]

Go to planejobs.com and check out the listing for female pilot.