Position reporting

[timeoff]

When in radar contact and cleared to a holding fix for some practice holds, am I required to report a time and altitude to ATC when established? I was told today that I didn't have to when in radar contact, but I am pretty sure I do.

Thanks

 

[The_Russian]

Here's what you should report when giving a position report:

d. Position Report Items:​

1. Position reports should include the following items:​

(a) Identification;​

(b) Position;​

(c) Time;​

(d) Altitude or flight level (include actual altitude or flight level when operating on a clearance specifying VFR-on-top);​

(e) Type of flight plan (not required in IFR position reports made directly to ARTCCs or approach control);​

(f) ETA and name of next reporting point;​

(g) The name only of the next succeeding reporting point along the route of flight; and​

(h) Pertinent remarks.​

 

[The_Russian]

Here is a list of when you should make position reports in radar or non-radar contact:

a. The following reports should be made to ATC or FSS facilities without a specific ATC request:​

1. At all times.​

(a) When vacating any previously assigned altitude or flight level for a newly assigned altitude or flight level.​

(b) When an altitude change will be made if operating on a clearance specifying VFR-on-top.​

(c) When unable to climb/descend at a rate of a least 500 feet per minute.​

(d) When approach has been missed. (Request clearance for specific action; i.e., to alternative airport, another approach, etc.)​

(e) Change in the average true airspeed (at cruising altitude) when it varies by 5 percent or 10 knots (whichever is greater) from that filed in the flight plan.​

(f) The time and altitude or flight level upon reaching a holding fix or point to which cleared.​

(g) When leaving any assigned holding fix or point.​

NOTE-
The reports in subparagraphs (f) and (g) may be omitted by pilots of aircraft involved in instrument training at military terminal area facilities when radar service is being provided.​

(h) Any loss, in controlled airspace, of VOR, TACAN, ADF, low frequency navigation receiver capability, GPS anomalies while using installed IFR-certified GPS/GNSS receivers, complete or partial loss of ILS receiver capability or impairment of air/ground communications capability. Reports should include aircraft identification, equipment affected, degree to which the capability to operate under IFR in the ATC system is impaired, and the nature and extent of assistance desired from ATC.​

NOTE-
1. Other equipment installed in an aircraft may effectively impair safety and/or the ability to operate under IFR. If such equipment (e.g., airborne weather radar) malfunctions and in the pilot's judgment either safety or IFR capabilities are affected, reports should be made as above.

2. When reporting GPS anomalies, include the location and altitude of the anomaly. Be specific when describing the location and include duration of the anomaly if necessary.​

(i) Any information relating to the safety of flight.​

(f) The time and altitude or flight level upon reaching a holding fix or point to which cleared.

Here is your answer my friend. Report time and altitude upon reaching that hold!

 

[timeoff]

Just as I thought. Thanks Russian

Another question. Why? What purpose does it serve to report a time and altitude when ATC can see you?

 

[SiuDude]

Just as I thought. Thanks Russian

Another question. Why? What purpose does it serve to report a time and altitude when ATC can see you?

The controller's scope is very cluttered when there are many aircraft holding at the same fix. While reporting time is probably useless in a radar environment, an altitude report gives the controller a reminder of where you are and how high you are.

 

[Say Again Over]

Get it on the tape, yours and his, CYA.

 

[Ghetto Sled]

Memory Aid

Since you are out practicing holding you're either a student or a CFI.

The flying Red was a little confused in his initial reply giving you, instead, the requirements for a position report, which is much different than a holding call. Also, make your life easier and don't report in Zulu time just say, "C22532 Entereing holding at 25 past the hour."

I used the following acronym for my students when I was a CFI.

TULSAHAM D - - - FACE

Required Reports 'RADAR ENVIRONMENT'

T-True Airspeed Changes 5% or 10 kts TAS whichever is greater
U-Unable to climb/descend @ 500fpm
L-Loss of Equipment
S-Safety of Flight including Unforecasted WX
A-Altitude Changes
H-Holding: Time and Alt when entering and leaving the fix
A-Altitude changes VFR-On-Top
M-Missed Approach

D-Direct points which define a direct route
(FAR Requirement, but not ever used)

Reports to be Used while NOT in RADAR Contact:
F-Final Approach fix inbound
A-All of the above (TULSAHAM D)
C- Compulsatory Reporting Points
(This is where a position report has to be given)
E-ETA changes in excess of 3 min.

I hope it helps you and anyone else.

 

[Kream926]

how come you couldnt go look it up but instead had someone else do it?

 

[timeoff]

I did look it up dingaling...I was looking for more info on it.

 

[Instinct]

how come you couldnt go look it up but instead had someone else do it?

Valid point, but usually someone ends up contributing a bit more than what's asked. Just like ghetto did with his memory aids. I had never heard of this particular memory aid, and I actually like it!