Piper Seneca as a primary trainer?

[FlySacto]

Hi All!

I'm about to put together a partnership in a twin for flight training and personal transportation. I think a Seneca would be a good fit but I have reservations about running a turbo engine in a training environment with all the engine out work. Is this a valid thought or misplaced concern?

Thanks!

 

[viper548]

I think a BE-95 with tape covering holes in the elevator would be a better choice.

 

[BoilerUP]

What about a Seneca I (IO-360, 200hp)? It won't perform as well as the II or higher with the turbo'd Continental engine, but should be fine for what you seem to be asking out of it. I did my MEI training in one and it worked out great.

 

[great cornholio]

I've got over 200 hours in the Seneca I. It was a good multi trainer. Pretty simple and forgiving as far as Multis go. Plus it could haul a decent amount of stuff at about 140 kts or maybe even a little faster. Plus like it was said before no turbo so thats on less thing to worry about in training. One question is though are you guys going to let the plane be a leaseback at a flight school or is the training just going to be for the other partner in the plane? If the other partner is the only student then what kind of experience does he already have. If you are just going to train one person and they already have some flight time IE private then I don't see why a Seneca II or III with a turbo would be too much to handle.

 

[FlySacto]

I think a BE-95 with tape covering holes in the elevator would be a better choice.

If everyone else only knew the joke!!!

 

[FlySacto]

One question is though are you guys going to let the plane be a leaseback at a flight school or is the training just going to be for the other partner in the plane? If the other partner is the only student then what kind of experience does he already have. If you are just going to train one person and they already have some flight time IE private then I don't see why a Seneca II or III with a turbo would be too much to handle.

I've got a group of six clients who want training. Four going pro-pilot needing to do commercial multi/MEI/time build and two business types wanting the twin rating. I was looking to get everyone trained and liquidate the airplane partnership afer they flew the tail off it. The business guys look ahead to having an airplane to keep for a while so I was looking for something that might fit both bills. Thanks!

 

[Tired Soul]

Got a Seneca 1 for sale...well at least know one for sale

 

[part61]

scenca I is a very good trainer. I would also recomend a baron B 55 if the aircraft has to do both. The MX will eat your lunch on the turbo.

 

[Pilot_Ryan]

You don't want any part of flying turbo'd engines in a flight training environment. I agree with the suggestion to go with the I. It's got some CG/load issues if you want to use it for transportation of more than four people, but for a trainer it's as simple and reliable as they come. Great low-speed handling characteristics, bonehead simple fuel system, counterrotating props, one of the best/simplest retract designs... it's a very good trainer.

If you really want the II for some reason, find one that's been de-turbo'd, or de-turbo it yourself (neither are very good value propositions w/r/t keeping the value of the airplane high.)

 

[USMCmech]

Ditto what everybody else said about the turbo charged Seneca.

Taking care of a fixed wastegate turbo in a training enviroment is a recipe for disaster. Everytime a student pushes the MAP over 45" (IIRC?) you need to do an overboost inspection of the intake manifold. It's not a huge deal, but it will add up fast when you need to do it 3 times per year.


If you get one of the newer models with automatic wastegate turbos you might be OK but those are pricey.

If you really want the II for some reason, find one that's been de-turbo'd, or de-turbo it yourself (neither are very good value propositions w/r/t keeping the value of the airplane high.)

You could deturbo the engines but keep the turbos untill you try to sell the plane or quit useing it for training. However I imagin that would be more trouble than it's worth.