Piper Pa34-200t Seneca II

[Flyin Tony]

Any Seneca II pilots out there? Whats the going rate on a rental? Also Perf spec? Cruise? Range? Useful load? Payload? How about getting into the Ice in one, how does it do? K-ice? How is it on one engine? Do the Turbos help alot, over the Seneca I? And also were all the Seneca II turbo?
thanks for the Help
Tony

 

[Snakum]

I don't have the performance numbers here with me, and I don't remember them off-hand, but PA34 rentals in the Southeast run around $175 nowadays. Also, not all IIs were TC, in fact I've never seen a turbo II for rent, though I'm sure there are some. It'd be rare to find one for rent with boots, as well. And I'm sure you know already, but just in case ... boots on any light twin are merely to help you live long enough to get out of ice ... and you'd probably need to get out QUCKLY, too. Don't get brave just 'cause it's got boots.

Oh yeah ... single engine performance is adequate to deliver you to the scene of the accident. (There ... I beat someone to it. )

Minh

 

[Mmmmmm Burritos]

All (US anyway) Seneca II's are turbo. Continental TSIO-360's @ 200hp apiece. Seneca I's were the only non-turbo Senca with Lycoming 200hp 4 cylinders.

If you're planning on flying in ice with any light aircraft, you had better start reading some accident reports in regards to icing. DO NOT think you are safe if you have boots. Single engine performance is pretty good, all Senecas are counterrotating. You get a higher single engine service ceiling with the turbo.

Search for specs on Google and you shall find what you are looking for.

 

[Snakum]

All (US anyway) Seneca II's are turbo

D'oh ... I flew, and have notes for, the Seneca I. My bad.

Minh

 

[Flyin Tony]

well i dont plan on getting into the ICE but (when i get my AMEL ratings) if there is a layer with a little ice in it and its not to thick I think I will do it. But I might just be on one of them accident reports, But most of all its a saftey thing. You cant be too safe.

I was down at Air Desert Pacific yesterday and they just got a Seneca II on there line, I think it should be up in the next 2 weeks.

I was looking at the Seneca II because I would like to fly something with a Turbo, I never have and I want to see if the turbos are worth the extra money.

Thanks again
Tony

 

[n757st]

well i dont plan on getting into the ICE but (when i get my AMEL ratings) if there is a layer with a little ice in it and its not to thick I think I will do it. But I might just be on one of them accident reports, But most of all its a saftey thing. You cant be too safe.

I was down at Air Desert Pacific yesterday and they just got a Seneca II on there line, I think it should be up in the next 2 weeks.

I was looking at the Seneca II because I would like to fly something with a Turbo, I never have and I want to see if the turbos are worth the extra money.

Thanks again
Tony

The problem with the seneca II is that it has a fixed waist gate... which can be somewhat bothersome and also does not give you the full capability of the turbo charger. I know that this was changed in the V and I think the IV... not sure bout the III though.

 

[avbug]

I flew four or five hundred hours in the Seneca II and III. They're good airplanes, with a high single engine service ceiling. With fuel and passengers, the airplane could do 8,000' on one engine. I didn't believe that when I first started flying it, but almost all our work was at higher altitudes and I learned by experience that it will do it.

It was a good honest 170 knot airplane; use that for flight planning and you're fine.

Keep it out of the ice. It's not an ice airplane. Legally, yes. However, it's not wise, and the only real benifit of anti-ice and de-ice on that airplane is to get you out of ice...not to stay in it.

I can't quote you the specifics of the airplane, it's been a while. They're okay. Junky door, like any of the cherokee line. Especially the overhead catch. Same for the rear. The entire airplane, like any cherokee airframe, is flimsy; not great construction or design. But it survived mostly dirt, rough field landings where I was using the design, with success, so I couldn't complain. I flew it mostly off short dirt strips, gravel, and ice, without a lot of complaint.

I was never impressed with the heater, but never have been with the janitrol heaters. Bombs, really. The only time I cared to use them is when I was too cold to care if it blew up. Anybody here who's ever had one catch fire, or slogged out a flight with a splitting headache from carbon monoxide while using one, will understand.

There is nothing in the design of the turbocharger that prevents one from gaining full use of the turbocharger through it's critical altitude, nor is there anything tricky or unusual about the wastegate and controller. More than one type of wastegate and turbocharger was used on the design.

Flying a boosted engine (turbocharged, supercharged, turbocompound, or otherwise boosted) is no different than anything else you've flown, so long as you use common sense and proper technique. Cool and warm slowly, and respect the engine. No sudden power changes, no cold descents, no sudden power ups, no power off approaches to a go-around. No shutting the engine down in flight and then firing it back up again to go...cool it for several minutes at idle before shutting down and do the same after starting it again before bringing up the power.

It's just an airplane; a very stable airplane. Be sure the nose baggage door is locked. There are very few senecas that don't have damage in the upper corners of the nosebag door well where the door has come open during landing at some point and injured the hingeline, and often broken the glass. Look closely on most of them and you'll see what I mean. (if you don't see it from the outside, have a look from the inside, you'll probably see the repair).

Good luck.

 

[wmuflyguy]

The problem with the seneca II is that it has a fixed waist gate... which can be somewhat bothersome and also does not give you the full capability of the turbo charger. I know that this was changed in the V and I think the IV... not sure bout the III though.

I did my CMEL in a IV and it still has the fixed waste gate. It is fixed to sometihng like 14,500ft before you get some loss of manifold pressure, but had a tendency to change based on how long it was since the waste gate was last checked. It was a pain for maintenance to check too, they would set it then have to fly it all the way up and see if it was fixed right, if not, come down and adjust it and then repeat the process. good if your a maintenance guy you get some flight time. crappy if your a student and the A/C is down for a week.

It was an awesome airplane to fly, it could climb on one engine (though not more than 200fpm on a typical michigan summer day). Never had to use the de-icing equipment, so dont know how well it handles ice.

 

[Matterhorn]

I was down at Air Desert Pacific yesterday and they just got a Seneca II on there line, I think it should be up in the next 2 weeks.

Yea, I've been to ADP too. (3 yrs ago) It should stand for "All Dilapidated Planes" I was never so happy to get home to my own crappy flight school planes.

 

[CRJ Driver]

Pa34-200t

The problem with the seneca II is that it has a fixed waist gate... which can be somewhat bothersome and also does not give you the full capability of the turbo charger. I know that this was changed in the V and I think the IV... not sure bout the III though.

Your wrong about the turbo capability, only half throttle you will get 40"in manfold pressure on take off. As far as the fixed waste gate thing, it's simple
no moving parts, ever seen a TSIO-520 turbocharger. Great plane I got 1200+ hours in it, very good short field performance.

 

[Vik]

Yea, I've been to ADP too. (3 yrs ago) It should stand for "All Dilapidated Planes" I was never so happy to get home to my own crappy flight school planes.

After I flew once at ADP (flew one of their Archers for about 8 hours on a very long x-c), I never complained once about my own school's planes.

I've never seen the power of duct tape until I went to ADP.

 

[n757st]

Your wrong about the turbo capability, only half throttle you will get 40"in manfold pressure on take off. As far as the fixed waste gate thing, it's simple
no moving parts, ever seen a TSIO-520 turbocharger. Great plane I got 1200+ hours in it, very good short field performance.

What I meant by loosing the full capability of the turbo is that since the waistgate will not close fully, you will not get the same service ceiling as an airplane with a mechanical or an automatic waistgate. It will likely never matter in an airplane like the seneca II... but it is still not as efficient as an automatic waistgate equiped airplane such as a seneca V. The need to watch the MP on takeoff is also a little more troublesome.