Pinnacle

[dal757]

What's the latest with Pinnacle. The good and bad... I know pay sucks but is it worth considering?

 

[WMUSIGPI]

just my opinion for my situation... NO

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Most definitely not as bad as people make it sound, and if you live at base is actually pretty good, Captain pay is about industry average but F/O pay is definitely substandard, even the company knows it, this is why in an attempt at a proposal that they did some time ago there was improvement in F/O pay. This proposal was shot down like I said in another thread "With Extreme Prejudice" and items are being TA'd fairly quickly. Lines have improve quite a bit lately and they are moving towards preferential biding. Also a lot of improvement in terms of training. About our future with the RFP and the possibility that we will be allowed to operate for other carriers? I'll let the "Crystal Ball Experts" take their best guess.
People are having fun on the line and we enjoy each others company, that's as much as I can say really. A job is a job is a job, some things could be better and others are just fine.
There is always a lot of bitterness thrown at PCL in this forum by people that had a short stay here because like the good generation Xr's that they are, they wanted to make captains off the street make their 1000 hours in 10 months and move on. But it didn't work for them, so of course the place sucks right? because God forbid how could it be their fault that the company didn't let the best naturally 500 hour gifted individuals use it as a spring board?
It's a regional airline job, no more no less. If you decide to come I can tell you one thing though, you will find more people that actually like it that you will find of the likes that post on this board.

 

[blackbox]

PCL is worth considering. especially if you live in base. Like DumbPilot said its not too bad here. Its not the best, but far from what a lot of people on this board make it seem. A lot of the fodder for the hate comes from Flt 3701 and Gulfstream bridge program.

If you ahve to commute, being a CASS airline and having a commuter clause helps.

the BAD: The work rules are about a half step above mesa tho. But being in contract negotiations, things should definitely approve in that arena. Scheduling sucks, but is defintly getting better. Lines are hit or miss, April was really bad, and May avg. line in MSP had 16.4 days off. PCL is a feeder for NW and only NW. so that is bad news. I really dont think we will fly for anyone else, thats how daddy mainline likes it.

Good-crews are fun, Though you will fly with your share of bitter capts. Reserve isnt too long, and honestly FOs have it pretty good compared to other airlines, when it comes to workload.

good luck.

 

[Mesabi Miner]

Good-crews are fun, Though you will fly with your share of bitter capts.

You want bitter? Wander across the hall.

MM

 

[727RedTails]

Blackbox,
I will agree with what you posted, except the part about better work rules than Mesa. Can you give us some examples? As far as I'm concerned the work rules are the FAR 121 regs nothing better.

 

[Turkey Shoot]

Got an email from them. "Come to our job seminar if you have 350TT." Just curious but how much good is a 350 hour pilot when the crap hits the fan?

 

[FlyBunny]

yet another one...

Got an email from them. "Come to our job seminar if you have 350TT." Just curious but how much good is a 350 hour pilot when the crap hits the fan?

Yep, here's another one who believes in 'quantity' than quality. There's two guys flying for Mesaba right now who won't take their students in actual IMC as they were scared lifeless to teach in an actual IMC...when they got hired by XJ, they both had around the mins for XJ...way more than 350 hours...

If you pay attention and look around, you'd notice that in Europe, it's the norm to take a 250-hour pilot and put them in 757, 737, and even in 747s...and how many of those 'classy' airlines (BA, Lufthanza, etc.) have you seen crashed because of those.

On the other hand...you have our major airline pilots running out of fuel, landing in TS, not knowing what altitude they were at before hitting the ground, and running in to bridges because they didnt' follow the procedures.

At the same time...not saying that there have not been any accidents in Europe or other countries...but so far...I haven't found any that was due to a low-time pilot experience.

Get off your high horse and accept the fact that hours have nothing to do with quality.

Pinnacle is as good as any regional if not better...

I'd be happy to forward many, many more report of accidents cuased by the 'very experienced' pilots.

Unbelievable!
Would the 'low-time' pilot debate ever end?

Bunny

 

[dal757]

Thanks for the responses! Got a couple more questions...

*Can one expect Memphis out of training?
*How long is reserve running?
*Current Upgrade time?

 

[FutureHeavyAC]

Thanks for the responses! Got a couple more questions...

*Can one expect Memphis out of training?
*How long is reserve running?
*Current Upgrade time?

1. You can hold or will hold in a month or two Memphis out of training.

2. Reserve is short. Know a few guys who sat only two months of reserve. I also know a few guys who can hold 14-15 days off and bid reserve to stay home all month. With the pilots leaving every month, you will find you sen # moving up quite rapidly. For example a guy hired in Fall 2004 has moved from 1025 to 775 and holds 15 days off.

3. Upgrade is a big question.... Again, with all the pilots (CA's and FO's) leaving every month and the ammount of guys in the pool over at Fed Ex and other places who will be leaving this summer, Im sure we will start to see larger vacancies. But....this all depend on our future with NWA. If we see growth= more upgrades, less growth=upgrades for attrition.

Pinnacle is what you make of it. If you come to work, fly safe and go home you will enjoy it. Hopefully the new contract will provide some financial help to first and second year fo pay and some "tweaking" of other sections will help make QOL a little better.

Hope this info helps.

 

[Workin'Stiff]

There's two guys flying for Mesaba right now who won't take their students in actual IMC as they were scared lifeless to teach in an actual IMC...when they got hired by XJ, they both had around the mins for XJ...way more than 350 hours...

The way this thread was going, I was only waiting for the point when it would turn to "them vs. us"... Thanks for continuing this and I can't wait to see what other vital information you have to add to this...

 

[SEVEN]

Yep, here's another one who believes in 'quantity' than quality. There's two guys flying for Mesaba right now who won't take their students in actual IMC as they were scared lifeless to teach in an actual IMC...when they got hired by XJ, they both had around the mins for XJ...way more than 350 hours...

If you pay attention and look around, you'd notice that in Europe, it's the norm to take a 250-hour pilot and put them in 757, 737, and even in 747s...and how many of those 'classy' airlines (BA, Lufthanza, etc.) have you seen crashed because of those.

On the other hand...you have our major airline pilots running out of fuel, landing in TS, not knowing what altitude they were at before hitting the ground, and running in to bridges because they didnt' follow the procedures.

At the same time...not saying that there have not been any accidents in Europe or other countries...but so far...I haven't found any that was due to a low-time pilot experience.

Get off your high horse and accept the fact that hours have nothing to do with quality.

Pinnacle is as good as any regional if not better...

I'd be happy to forward many, many more report of accidents cuased by the 'very experienced' pilots.

Unbelievable!
Would the 'low-time' pilot debate ever end?

Bunny

Quality comes from experience. And the way to get true experience is through quanity. Don't tell me that some 300 hour pilot is more qualified than a 3000 hour pilot. I'm sure in very RARE cases there is some "Super Pilot" who is better. But in almost every case, the more hours you have, the better qualified you are. Why? EXPERIENCE! Would you want a Doctor who's only performed 10 heart surgeries working on you, or a Doctor with 20 years experience who has done 5000 heart surgeries?
Sorry, but your premise that Low-time pilots are just as qualified as Higher -time pilots is at best rediculous.

 

[dal757]

Hey folks I was asking about life at Pinnacle. How the heck did we digress to low time pilots??? For those who responded with beneficial answers I truly thank you!! Any more feedback on Pinnacle and QOL would be greatly appreciated..

 

[Lear70]

I'm voting this for most unintentionally funny post of the month!

Get off your high horse and accept the fact that hours have nothing to do with quality.

LOLOLOL!!! Sure, what you said buddy. Just so many major airlines out there that don't care about minimum flight times, right?

Pinnacle is as good as any regional if not better...

ROFLMFAO!!!!

Pinnacle is one of the worst three regionals to work for. Unfortunately, you probably don't know any better because you haven't worked anywhere else. Stop drinking the cool aid, no matter how much they tell you the flavor is grape, it still really tastes like sh*t.

I'd be happy to forward many, many more report of accidents cuased by the 'very experienced' pilots.

And for every one of them I can give you a rebuttal where low time and/or low experience in type equaled accident.

3701 is a perfect example of this; combine a low-time pilot with a low experience-IN-TYPE Captain, add a huge lack of basic aerodynamic knowledge and a little disregard for procedure and you have a smoking hole in the ground.

Oh, that's right, you probably weren't working for PCL at the time so you don't know the story behind the story. I flew with that F/O 3 weeks before the accident and saw the Captain almost every day at work.

I'd also mention the Payne Stewart accident in the Lear with the brand new low-time F/O and the newly type-rated Captain who had almost zero Learjet time. I flew Payne Stewart for Flexjet to the U.S. Open about a month before that accident, I'm still pissed off about it, he was a GREAT guy!

Until people stop putting low experienced people in the cockpit, accidents will continue to happen. Notice I DID NOT SAY that ALL accidents were attributable to low experience, but enough to say that it's definitely a causal factor and a good reason to hire people with MORE experiance than not.

Unbelievable!
Would the 'low-time' pilot debate ever end?

I agree... unbelievable... that a "professional" pilot would try to argue that experience means nothing. You should know better by now.

Incidentally, Pinnacle is a DECENT place to get some CRJ experience and go to work for SkyWest or a decent regional carrier. Bad news is I have a $100 bet that, within the next 12 months, PCL announces that Northwest is reducing the airline to 79 - 85 aircraft. Anyone else want some of that action?

 

[arthompson]

I'm voting this for most unintentionally funny post of the month!


Pinnacle is one of the worst three regionals to work for. Unfortunately, you probably don't know any better because you haven't worked anywhere else. Stop drinking the cool aid, no matter how much they tell you the flavor is grape, it still really tastes like sh*t.


Incidentally, Pinnacle is a DECENT place to get some CRJ experience and go to work for SkyWest or a decent regional carrier. Bad news is I have a $100 bet that, within the next 12 months, PCL announces that Northwest is reducing the airline to 79 - 85 aircraft. Anyone else want some of that action?

I have worked at a few regional airlines and this place really isn't that bad. There is alot that needs to be improved and the company is working on it. However the most important thing I can say in this, is that you NO LONGER work at Pinnacle so there is no reason for you to keep harping on how bad you hated it. I promise you this though if he had spent less time being an A$$ to people, and claiming that you knew so much more about the goings on in the company than every one else you might not have had it so rough there. Also you stuck around quite awhile for a guy that hated the place so badly.

 

[Lear70]

I have worked at a few regional airlines and this place really isn't that bad.

First off, EXACTLY WHAT is your position at Pinnacle Airlines? Yes, I know who you are and what you do, but someone reading this board might assume you actually know something about pilot's QOL, which you don't.

There is alot that needs to be improved and the company is working on it.

Second, the company isn't working on jack fu*king sh*t. The company doesn't care. Period. They have demonstrated that time, and time, and time again. This is NOT Southwest, they don't CARE about their employees. There are so many examples, and all someone has to do is a little reading on this board to understand.

However the most important thing I can say in this, is that you NO LONGER work at Pinnacle so there is no reason for you to keep harping on how bad you hated it.

Absolutely there is. If someone has a choice between Pinnacle and a better regional, those of us who understand the company can steer them to a better working environment. THAT'S the reason to underscore the working conditions there.

I promise you this though if he had spent less time being an A$$ to people, and claiming that you knew so much more about the goings on in the company than every one else you might not have had it so rough there.

Exactly when and how did I do this? Please, be specific. I might have voiced opinions on where things were heading, but I never claimed to have more "knowledge". Quite the contrary, every pilot at PCL was always given the mushroom treatment, so we didn't know jack shiznit.

As far as being an ass, I guess that's why I have so many good friends from PCL that have all ended up at other jobs. It's kinda funny how those of us that HAVE been able to move on are all friends and many of the people who can't get OUT of PCL are the people who didn't like me... Why don't you go chew on that for a while.

Also you stuck around quite awhile for a guy that hated the place so badly.

It's called not having anywhere else to go. I was furloughed from my last job into my position at PCL, then Sept 11th happened right after I got online, so there's about 2-3 years of no one hiring pilots, then another year or so to get hired on where I am. But if you'd used your head a little you'd have figured that out.

I'm very grateful to be where I am and thankful to be done with PCL, I was trying to get out since the beginning of my 2nd year there (when it was obvious management had lied about pretty much everything they promised during my interview) and I'm doing my best to help my friends who are still there move on as well.

To the original topic, as I've said before, the crews are great, REALLY fun people to fly with, it's a great atmosphere once you get to go fly, and it's a great place to build some time and move on. It's all the B.S. from management that makes it so onerous... Until the senior management ALL changes, don't expect improvements. If that changed, it would really be a great company.

Read the resumes of everyone above the Chief Pilot's level, you might understand a lot about their management styles from where those people came from.

 

[PCL_128]

Keep it up, Rich! Someone needs to tell the truth about this place, because the company certainly won't when the newbies show up to interview. For the pilots out there that are thinking about coming to work at Pinnacle, listen to Lear70's words very carefully. He speaks the truth about this company, and you deserve to know the truth before coming here. Pilots are terminated often (especially probationary pilots) without just cause, you will be disciplined for calling in sick or fatigued, you will be junior-manned and extended just so the company can understaff the airline at absurd levels, and the list goes on and on. Come here if you need some quick part 121 jet time, otherwise, there are much better options.

 

[blackbox]

You want bitter? Wander across the hall.

MM

Yeah, it sucks whats happening to you guys. Good luck over there.

Blackbox,
I will agree with what you posted, except the part about better work rules than Mesa. Can you give us some examples? As far as I'm concerned the work rules are the FAR 121 regs nothing better.

My numbers might be wrong about Mesa, so someone please correct me if I am wrong

Min. days off: Mesa 8, PCL 10, Skywest 12 for line holders

DH pay: Mesa 0%, PCL 50%, Skywest 100%

CX for MX or WX, Mesa 0%, PCL 50%, Skywest 100%

Flight pay, MEsa Segment pay, PCL Trip Values (first 15 min. over TV, free), Skywest Block or better.

Mesa is at the bottom, PCL is just a half step better, and SKywest/AWAC/XJT/ Horizon are about as good as it gets at a regional

 

[blackbox]

Incidentally, Pinnacle is a DECENT place to get some CRJ experience and go to work for SkyWest or a decent regional carrier. Bad news is I have a $100 bet that, within the next 12 months, PCL announces that Northwest is reducing the airline to 79 - 85 aircraft. Anyone else want some of that action?

Dont tell me that!!

 

[BOHICAgain]

Keep it up, Rich! Someone needs to tell the truth about this place, because the company certainly won't when the newbies show up to interview. For the pilots out there that are thinking about coming to work at Pinnacle, listen to Lear70's words very carefully. He speaks the truth about this company, and you deserve to know the truth before coming here. Pilots are terminated often (especially probationary pilots) without just cause, you will be disciplined for calling in sick or fatigued, you will be junior-manned and extended just so the company can understaff the airline at absurd levels, and the list goes on and on. Come here if you need some quick part 121 jet time, otherwise, there are much better options.

I know that this company is not the best but ive called got sick 3 times in 3 months... did not get disciplined... I was Junnior manned once like 1.5 years ago... never extended.. The only thing that I can say about this company is the FO pay.. other than that is NOT BAD, not excellent but I hope the work ur doing will help. I may not be getting rich but i fly about 90 hours a month and when guys get out of here like Lear70 ( wish more guys left instead of being happy PCL lifetimers) upgrade time is not that far along