Pinnacle Questions

[ataopsdave]

Just a real quick question for Pinnacle guys. What are the mins from internal applicants from within the company and how long do you have to be an employee before you can switch departments?

 

[JJJ]

We just had a couple of schedulers hired with around 500. I think there was a ramper a few years ago that was hired with a temp commercial certificate.

I'm not sure if there is a min time before you can get an interview though.

 

[Mel Sharples]

I think there was a ramper a few years ago that was hired with a temp commercial certificate.

Please, God, tell me you're kidding.....

They wouldn't actually do this, right? This is a sick joke, right?

Don't people have to be qualified anymore???


But I'll assume your kidding or this is urban legend unless I hear otherwise.

 

[IP076]

I know a few people that were hired back in the day with little time at Pinnacle because they worked there in another capacity.

Its surprising what internal recs will do...

 

[dondk]

I don't think anyone can tell you the rhyme or reason to the internal rec's...

The latest two scehdulers were promised several times though BEFORE they got a class date.

Management has used this ploy with several different people in various departments. While most have netted jobs from it, not all were treated fairly in the grand scheme. We have had people come from the ramp, customer service, in-flight and scheduling. I think the fastest from "intern" to training was a good 6 months of slave labor.

Min flight time... I heard one somewhat recent "intern" was just over 300 TT with just over 85ME and the biggest thing flown was a Duchess. That intern struggled in the sim and had to be given "remedial" training.

As for qualified.. Well.. I don't think our management is qualified, so why would I expect them to hire ONLY qualified pilots?

 

[DoinTime]

I think the fastest from "intern" to training was a good 6 months of slave labor.

Min flight time... I heard one somewhat recent "intern" was just over 300 TT with just over 85ME and the biggest thing flown was a Duchess. That intern struggled in the sim and had to be given "remedial" training.

When interns were hired their internships would last from 3-8 months and if the candidate was deemed suitable for a pilot position they were hired with as little as 200 hours and 10 multi. That was years ago though and the company hasn't had an internship program since early 2001. What they do now is hire into regular company positions with the "hope" of getting a class date someday.

The low timers today have a much more difficult job transitioning to the CRJ as it was going into the Saab but most have fared very well (a higher success rate than new hires that met the published mins). I've flown with many in the sub-500 range and I would put most of them up against any of our 3000 hour plus FO's. Maybe its the lack of experience that drives them to try harder.

 

[Lear70]

As for qualified.. Well.. I don't think our management is qualified, so why would I expect them to hire ONLY qualified pilots?

DING DING DING DING!! And we have a winner!

p.s. Not bashing the new-hires, flown with many since I'm on reserve and for the vast majority, they are good sticks and fun people. Management here just plain sucks.

"You sent my bag WHERE??!! @$*@(!!#$%&

 

[PCL Flt-ops]

Unfortunately we are still run like a redneck part 135 airline despite the fact that we will soon operate 130 CRJs. It's the whole Memphis thing; there are a lot of redneck hillbillies there - both pilots and management.

How many Northwest or Delta pilots do you know that fly around with a dip cup spitting into it the whole flight? Catch my drift.

 

[Lear70]

Don't get us started. We'll vent like there's no tomorrow. Have a nice day.

ROFLMFAO!!! Don't know which dispatcher you are, but that's some funny shiznit right there...

Upgrades are not going to run very fast for pilots hired this year (probably 3-5 years unless we get more deliveries which isn't likely given Mesaba's new pay rates plus our negotiating status), plus in about a year and a half we're going to be even more disgusted with management than we are right now 'cause we'll have been in negotiations for a year and most of us expect them to go even worse than Mesaba's.

We have a lot of management issues and I would HIGHLY suggest if you have a choice in regionals, go to someplace like Comair that has a decent quality of life and a management structure that doesn't deliberately staff at a level where you WILL get used on your off days with no way to get them back, make you shlepp your crew bags in the cargo compartment instead of the cabin EVEN IF THERE IS ROOM, forget to pay your 401k or medical insurance or just plain short your paycheck, etc, etc.

If you don't have a choice to go elsewhere, take some comfort in the fact that the pilot group as a whole is a lot of fun to fly with, maintenance is top-notch, and the jet itself is a pretty decent bird to fly. Good luck!

 

[DoinTime]

We sure as hell won't be able to route 130 airplanes on big sheets of paper and make it work the way it should.

I don't know about that. Have you seen how large you can get a sheet of paper these days?

 

[ataopsdave]

Fog Sucks

Check your PM's

 

[smokey999]

How many CRJ's does Pinnacle operate now? I thought it was right around 70. If you get to 130 as projected, your pilot group will just about have to double. Wouldn't that make for a quicker upgrade than 3-5? Are the other 60 CRJ's options or firm orders?
"worse than mesaba's", really, that sucks.

 

[justmeinmsp]

I think we have about 84 on property now. We have a firm 129 due by the end of 05. NW has options for another 175.

 

[smokey999]

And the thought is XJ will get most the options, because of their lower CRJ rates?

 

[Lear70]

And the thought is XJ will get most the options, because of their lower CRJ rates?

With 45 CRJ's still to come on property with an average staffing ratio of 4 crews per aircraft (yeah, it sucks and is one of the reasons we get Junior Assigned and Extended so much here), that's 180 Captains - 40 or so of those are already assigned to our current F/O's for aircraft deliveries through July to around the 450 seniority mark. We have around 800 pilots here now and that leaves only around 140 more Captain slots and a lot of senior guys have stayed as F/O until we get closer to when the music stops so they don't have to commute to DTW or MSP. Personally, I'd be fairly surprised if, by the time we take our last scheduled delivery on the current 129 orders, the upgrades go any more senior than 550 or 600 on the list.

Mesaba's rates will be lower than ours until this time next year when they go about $0.50 higher than ours on the CA side, $2.00 higher on the F/O side per hour, but that's not the reason most people think they'll get the next deliveries. It's called "Whipsaw", the tactic of using one regional carrier against another regional carrier at the same mainline group to keep wages down. When Mesaba got hot and heavy into negotiations, they tripled Pinnacle's size, gave us all the jets, and stagnated Mesaba's growth including laying off lots of people - doom and gloom. Now that they've signed, they're hiring again. Odds are pretty good they'll do the same thing to us about this time next year and start threatning us with no growth or even the threat to give our CRJ's to Mesasba if we don't sign a concessionary contract.

Incedentally, most of the people here don't care and would take no growth for a decent pay raise, work rules, scope clause, and improved 401k, but that's just from the crew room discussions...

 

[smokey999]

Let's see if I'm following:
About 1200 pilots by mid 2005.
CA's starting about the mid 600's.
Newhire would be in the mid 800's.
So a newhire today would still have about 200 spots to go on the list(once deliveries stop in 2005)
So the question would be how much attrition at the top?
And if Big brother did give PCL another 50 planes after the contract is signed, that would put the newhire in position for Ca slot. It seems upgrade times still could be in the 2-4 range, where as at Eagle, Comair, Horizon, Mesaba, and Horizon, you're probably at 5+. Just my opinion!

 

[dondk]

Let's see if I'm following:
About 1200 pilots by mid 2005.
CA's starting about the mid 600's.
Newhire would be in the mid 800's.
So a newhire today would still have about 200 spots to go on the list(once deliveries stop in 2005)
So the question would be how much attrition at the top?
And if Big brother did give PCL another 50 planes after the contract is signed, that would put the newhire in position for Ca slot. It seems upgrade times still could be in the 2-4 range, where as at Eagle, Comair, Horizon, Mesaba, and Horizon, you're probably at 5+. Just my opinion!

The "magic" number when the music stops has been 1300 for about 3 years now. The music "should" stop early '05.

Captains I agree with Lear70 may break 600 but that will only be because some GIA people would not have the time.

As for a new hire today... moving up the list would be difficult because of the groups of GIA people mixed into the list, as they gain the time (and some have been here 2 years now) they will eventually move into the left seat.

Attrition.. there is "SOME" movement, a few have class dates with SWA and FedEx and ATA, others are phase II with JB. How many in attrrition numbers? I'd take a swing at maybe 5% of our current staff and that would probably be on the high side...

If Big brother gave is more... there is enough of us who think we will get a few more, probably top out at 150 jets and that would be all for us. So if we got those extra 21 jets, it would only be about 80 Captains, of which most would be filled by those passed over because of not having the time by '05.

Many of have been saying for a while now that our HR is passing out the company cool-aid to the new hires telling them they would upgrade in 3years... Guys upgrading TODAY have just about 3 years with the company and we only have 45 more jets to go...

Personally, I see 4 or better for those hired today and that is assuming it would take 3 years to get all of the furloughee's off of the street.

 

[Aileron2020]

Little off topic, but...

What is the jr. base? How long on reserve at the different bases? How long to upgrade at different bases?

Thx,
-A

 

[dondk]

Little off topic, but...

What is the jr. base? How long on reserve at the different bases? How long to upgrade at different bases?

Thx,
-A

Junior bases change month to month, although most new hires are assigned MSP or DTW lately.. I would call it a tie for now.

Reserve at the bases... again it changes, MEM is going long, DTW and MSP are going short. Best guess would be 4-6 months but that does hinge on growth by the base. I would expect by the end of this year it will start to climb significantly.

Upgrade per base... It is company wide and is in the 2- 2 1/2 year range right now. There are plently of FO's in each base that have the time and seniority to upgrade. I

 

[Aileron2020]

I am assuming that senority is based on age within a class?

-A