pinnacle negotiations

[satlol]

anyone have any new info on the contract talks last heard they were on hold does the fact that skywest is actively seeking some nwa flying have any impact on whether pinnacle will vote for growth or work rules

 

[flyn96]

This place might as well be a quilting circle, believe when you see it broken in the gate in DTW, MEM or MSP. Yes NWA would like more 70 seaters but they'll have to pry scope from the cold dead hands of their own pilots first.

In a J4J secnario Skywest would make sense. Niether Mesaba or Pinnacle pilots want NWA furloughs flying in their left seats with super senority (no matter what our cool aid serving ALPA leaders would like you to believe). Mesaba pilots paid out the A$$ for our scope to protect our jobs. Now ALPA will come in with a deal that gives super senority to NWA furloughs in a J4J deal and undermines the whole senority system. Talk about a conflict in intrest.

SOOOO enter skywest a non-union carrier willing to submit to NWA demands because their pilots can't do $ h it about NWA pilots in their planes and they fly 70's for 50 seat rates anyway. Good deal for NWA INC and all the SLC mormon homies get a big bonus.

THE GOOD THING IS NWA PILOTS HAVE THEIR OWN DUANE WORTHLESS TO BLAME FOR ANYTHING THAT HAPPENS. ITS NOT MESABAS, PINNACLE OR WHOEVER, IT YOUR MAN DUANE SIGNING PAPERS.

 

[DTWFO]

Hmmmm, I hadn't heard anything about Skywest yet, but it's a good rumor to start! No one is going to get ANY NWA flying without scope relief from NWA mainline pilots first. I seriously doubt that our negotiations will start again until next Spring when the amendable date comes up. That's due to the fact that PT says management has such a "great relationship with it's labor unions" (sarcasm).....I think he has a big surprise in store for him and the rest of his yes men!! Let the rumors fly!!!!

 

[satlol]

sorry man heard it in class this week he said "pt" skywest has been at the nwa office for the past year trying to get some flying dont worry not trying to say anything bad about skywest just wanted to know if skywest has a good chance at getting the 70's i hope not just because i want to see growth somewhere other than the underpaid regionals btw the catfish cabin has great food its just tough to stay awake after lunch

 

[DTWFO]

Catfish Cabin

I had to laugh when you mentioned the Catfish Cabin!! If there was ever a place that epitomizes Memphis that has to be it! You're just lucky you made it there without getting kniffed or mowed down in a drive-by.

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

If I am not mistaken, NWA's contract only allows for Pinnacle and Mesaba to fly for them...Heard that from an ALPA vice-chairman, I don't have a copy of the contract.

 

[T-Gates]

If I am not mistaken, NWA's contract only allows for Pinnacle and Mesaba to fly for them...Heard that from an ALPA vice-chairman, I don't have a copy of the contract.

That is correct, NWA pilots (Or thier MEC) would have to approve any new Airlinks....

 

[Lear70]

I cannot say this strongly enough...

DO NOT LISTEN TO WHAT MANAGEMENT SAYS

You WILL be lied to during indoc.

You WILL be told a bunch of smack that will not come true (upgrades, more aircraft, good labor relations).

You WILL be further lied to once you get to the line IF you go to management meetings (we had the last MSP one boycotted in favor of a union meeting at the same time at TGI Fridays upstairs from the crew lounge - only 5 pilots showed up to talk to management with 30+ upstairs).

You WILL be severely disappointed if you buy into their "feel-good" promises and lines.

About the only thing they DO tell you the truth about in training is CURRENT aircraft delivery schedule and CURRENT upgrades. Everything else is 90% bullsh*t. Remember, the best way to tell a lie is to make most of it truth before you throw the lie in on top. If some of it is verifiable, the rest of it must be true and no one else knows yet, right? (sarcasm)

Don't drink the kool-aid. Skywest can't do anything - they're owned by Mesaba and can't do any flying as "NW Airlink" under Mesaba scope and unless PCL bought them from MSA, called them "Pinnacle West", and started a NEW operating certificate with a NEW operational team, there's no way that Skywest will be flying NW CRJ's, and even that is questionable under our current contract (I'm sure we'd file an injunction that would take them several MORE months to clear).

Even if it DOES happen that way, it would take a year or more to implement and by then we will have taken #129 which was all we were slated to get anyway. Let them have future deliveries, I'm not giving up a decent contract just for growth... My strike fund is doing nicely, I'm crediting 115 hours this month flying 98 and don't expect that to slack off anytime soon - looking forward to JM and EXT pay in November and December when all the other Captains time out...

 

[DoinTime]

Don't drink the kool-aid. Skywest can't do anything - they're owned by Mesaba and can't do any flying as "NW Airlink" under Mesaba scope and unless PCL bought them from MSA, called them "Pinnacle West", and started a NEW operating certificate with a NEW

Are you thinking Big Sky? Mesaba does not own Skywest.

 

[Lear70]

Yeah... sorry. A little hung over this morning and the brain pan's still not firing quite right.

Then again, there are those at work who would say it never does...

Better point would be to say that unless Pinnacle purchased one of these companies, they are prohibited from flying RJ's under Northwest Mainline scope, period, end of story, and if PCL DID somehow decide to buy one of them and got it all up and working, our MEC would file an injunction as part of the "all Pinnacle flying must be done by Pinnacle seniority list pilots", similar to the grievance we just won on the professional instructors giving checkrides.

 

[Mel Sharples]

Better point would be to say that unless Pinnacle purchased one of these companies, they are prohibited from flying RJ's under Northwest Mainline scope, period, end of story, and if PCL DID somehow decide to buy one of them and got it all up and working, our MEC would file an injunction as part of the "all Pinnacle flying must be done by Pinnacle seniority list pilots", similar to the grievance we just won on the professional instructors giving checkrides.

I agree with you mostly. BUT. . . there is almost always a way around scope when it comes to corporations and shell companies. Mesaba always had it in their contract that "all flying at Mesaba Aviation must be done by Mesaba pilots." So the holding company went separate and bought Big Sky. There is probably a way for Pinnacle to create their own holding company and thus buy a new entity. The holding corp would own Pinnacle Airlines and Airline ABC. All "Pinnacle Airlines" flying would be done by "Pinnacle" pilots but the new flying could be done by pilots from the new entity.

If you don't think that could happen, look no further then Mesaba. You could try and sue but if it is a separate company you won't have a leg to stand on.

With all of that said, let's hope like hell that it does NOT happen. But be prepared in case it does.

Fly safe. . .

 

[Lear70]

I still believe it's a hollow threat, even in Mesaba's case. I think they sold the store for Scope that they didn't need.

When Northwest Mainline scope says only Pinnacle and Mesaba can operate as NW Airlink for RJ's, I'd bet we'd barely start preparing our response and mainline's MEC would be all over it like flies on sh*t, simply because it's an attack against THEIR scope which has held strong despite numerous attempts over the last 6 years or so.

I refuse to bite at that carrot, it will cost Northwest Millions in court battles as not only us but mailine files injunctions and lawsuits and they won't be able to do shinola until they're decided (gotta love an injunction), and if they finally win and get those jets operating somewhere else, that's fine, I'll let Phil sit on his Tens of Millions of $ in losses in stock and his worthless golden parachute after Pinnacle fails and I'll go back to flying Lears. Fu*k 'em...

That aside, I don't think it will come to that; I believe it would be just like Comair - they won't have a contingency plan in place because they believe we'll fold and when we don't after 30+ days, they'll panic and give enough ground to have something worth signing.

 

[NEWSOUTH]

Lear 70

My deepest condolences to your family and your father. I wish the best to all involved with the Tarheel hub airline. I'm sure it will all work out just fine for management. Good luck and God bless.

 

[Lear70]

Thanks, I appreciate that. We've been trying to find him a corporate or charter job for the last six months watching all this play out... hell, he used be the Chief Pilot for the State of Tennessee's Part 91 Learjet flight department and can't even find a Lear job right now.

Too many pilots out on the street and more on the way a la US Airways and now Delta again with thousands more graduating from aviation universities every day. Plus, he's 58 and a lot of people don't believe he's really willing to bust his butt again in the charter and corporate world.

What a sad, sad way for guys like him everywhere to end a career - watch the company you spend 25+ years at spiral slowly down the tubes and know that there's nowhere safe to land. That's why I'm starting to believe more and more that deregulation was a really, really bad idea.

 

[Rook]

Hey Lear 70 (you don't even know me)

If your pops is serious about going back to charter flying I know they will hire him in a heartbeat at my old YIP outfit. And he could be based out of Morristown TN if that would make it any easier. But the pay and the the non-existing schedule might upset him. Let me know what you think.

Rook

I'm Rich Beeotch!!!

 

[Lear70]

What's going onnnn, Jacksonnnn? Nice quote at the end, enjoying Captain pay are we? The lines suck next month though... 12 days off and we're 1/3 of the way up the seniority list! WTF?

Yeah, I think he'd definitely be interested, thanks for the offer. Give me a call when you get a chance and share the details, would be way cool!

Time to get back to eBay... done with the outside closet, starting on the storage unit - coming up with a down payment to buy some of the Florida property that's going to flood the market here soon. Gotta love when the newbies on the coastal cities all cut and run at the same time, I mean really, what are the odds of another three Category 4 and higher hurricanes hitting subsequently in one season again?

 

[Habib]

NW Flying for CHQ

I hear that Bedford was in MSP talking to Anderson about flying the 170 for NW, seems as though when Bedford was at Messaba he made some good friends upstairs.

Im sure that the 170 is going to be a better choice for everyone here on out, bye bye CRJ-700.

 

[T-Gates]

I hear that Bedford was in MSP talking to Anderson about flying the 170 for NW, seems as though when Bedford was at Messaba he made some good friends upstairs.

Im sure that the 170 is going to be a better choice for everyone here on out, bye bye CRJ-700.

Again, for that to happen, the NWA pilots would have to approve CHQ as a new Airlink and loose the tons of scope the acheived in thier current PWA. Chances of that happening and not having NWA pilots with rights to a seat in that airplane....slim to none.... Don't get your hopes up.

 

[Lear70]

I hear that Bedford was in MSP talking to Anderson about flying the 170 for NW, seems as though when Bedford was at Messaba he made some good friends upstairs.

Im sure that the 170 is going to be a better choice for everyone here on out, bye bye CRJ-700.

I heard that the industry is going to improve dramatically as passengers are sick and tired of low fares, cute young flight attendants, and nonstop flights to where they want to go so they're going to go back to the high price legacy carrier tickets of the mid-80's to bring the revenue back up enough to bring back the pensions at US Airways.

Habib, since you spread all the "rumors" you hear then follow up on them with comments that can't possibly happen without adjustments such as T-Gates mentioned, how about you spread that one around your coworkers and see what their reaction is?

Bye-bye CRJ-700? Not bloody likely. Northwest can't spit on their own shoes regarding any jets that seat more than 44 people without putting the kneepads on in front of the NW Pilot's MEC - they just finished months of negotiations to do just what you were implying and the pilots told them to piss off, so they're back to square one.

Didn't we just hash this out about two weeks ago?... jheeesh.

 

[Ace McCoy]

Bedford is Bad.

I think he means that the 170 is a better airplane and will outsell the crj-700. Lately most new 70 seat orders have been the 170.

But he is making stuff up when he says that Bedford has some friends upstairs at NWA. NWA hates rebels who go against the NWA plan. Bedford was that guy and that's why he was run out back in 1999. He was getting to growth happy and NWA wanted him out so I doubt they want to see the likes of him or CHQ around again.