Pinnacle domiciles & upgrades

[Skaz]

Yes I did a search, but it only yielded fragmented information, so please:

Does anybody know what the situation is with domiciles for new hires?

Are you at managements mercy or do you actually have a say in where you live? Are you stuck with the three domiciles as choices, or do you have the option of staying somewhere else and commuting?

What are the upgrade timelines like to Cpt, 2 years, 3 years? Obviously after you have a magic number of hours which is..............

And the salary, how much do you actually get out after all deductions etc?

Thanks

 

[PCL_128]

Three domiciles are MEM, DTW, MSP. You will bid in class and the awards go in order of seniority. Within your class seniority goes by age. You should probably be able to get your first choice right away, but if not there will be a vacancy within a couple of months so you can go there.

You don't have to live in base, but of course it would make it a lot easier. I'm a commuter based in DTW which has the best lines for commuting, but I'm still having a tough time. The lines this year haven't been very commuter friendly. (most trips start early and end late) Last year this time it was much better, so maybe it will get better later on. The schedules swing between wild extremes of almost zero commutability to a few months of very commutable lines.

Upgrade will be quite some time if you don't already have the required upgrade mins. (3500 TT) I would say a new hire is looking at a 5 year upgrade if they are very lucky. It's probably more like 7-8 years, but 5 years is best case scenario. We're getting our last plane this fall, and I doubt NW will award us anymore planes at least until our contract is ratified. Basically, be prepared to spend a long time in the right seat.

First year FO pay is just terrible. Expect to bring home 22-24k if you're lucky and don't have to sit reserve for very long. Second year only goes up a few grand. I've been on third year pay since last spring and only cleared 32k on my W2 last year. Our FO pay is worse than Mesa. 'Nuff said.

My recommendation? Don't come to Pinnacle unless you absolutely have no other choice. Almost anywhere is better. Pay sucks, work rules suck, relationship with management sucks, etc... I'm in the top third of the seniority list and hate this place. I can't imagine how bad it must be to be on the bottom of the list in a place like MSP where the lines are just unbearable even for the senior guys. Stay away unless this is your only option.

 

[Skaz]

sir, I commend you on your reply, you answered all my questions in one fell swoop.

Trouble is, right now, this is my only option. I need to get flying and earn some dineros, by hook or by crook.

Could you elaborate on the work rules? and relation with management?

Where do you commute from? And what is the process, do you jumpseat, or do you pay? Do you have to pay for your uniform?

I heard you receive no pay whatsoever during training. You have to pay for your hotel as well as all your meals?

Please excuse all the questions, but I would like to make an educated decision when the time comes.

Thanks in advance for your reply.

 

[PCL_128]

Yep, I understand completely. You go where you can.

Work rules - Company junior-mans and extends quite frequently. They view it as a way to keep staffing lower. If they take you below 10 days off, they never give you a comp day. They just pay it out in cash instead or just never give it to you if you don't accept the pay.

No trip or duty rigs, only 50% cancellation and deadhead pay, takes forever to accrue any sick time, and the list goes on and on. The contract is just very out of date and it will take a few years to get a new one with any decent improvements.

Management relationship - Pinnacle management views pilots as just an expendable commodity. You're not a person, just an item on a balance sheet taking away money that could be better spent on their bonuses. They will fire you on a whim during probation. The CP has been known to fire probies for missing just a single trip even with a good excuse. You really have to watch your back around here the first year.

A perfect example of the company's attitude towards us: Call in sick or fatigued more than 3 times in a year and you are given a warning letter in your employee file. Call in sick 6 times in a year and you're fired. Never mind the fact that you can't legally fly while sick. You're still fired. Pilot pushing at it's finest.

Commute - I commute from ATL. I always jumpseat, but after 5 years with the company you can get free passes on NW. From ATL I have to ride up front a lot of the time. Any city in Florida is pretty bad because we have TONS of FL commuters. Other than that, it just depends on the individual city. I used to commute from CAK and that was pretty easy.

Training - No pay or hotel in training. If you stay in a hotel it's gonna cost you big bucks. Figure 60 days at $40/nt. Pretty pricey. Best bet is to get a hotel for the first few days and then look on the bulletin board at the CEC for a crashpad for the rest of training. That will be much cheaper.

The training itself is pretty subpar. The ground instructors are mostly just AGIs with no flight experience whatsoever. They just read aloud whatever is on the slideshow presentation. Basically, just be prepared for a lot of self study. The sim instructors are pretty good since most of them are furloughed DAL pilots, but they don't really know much of our line flying procedures. Standardization is a big problem at PCL.

Uniform cost is split between you and the company. They payroll deduct your half over a certain amount of time (can't remember how long). If you want to buy a leather jacket then you'll have to foot the entire bill for that.

Hope all that info helps. Time for bed.

 

[DetoXJ]

Three domiciles are MEM, DTW, MSP. You will bid in class and the awards go in order of seniority. Within your class seniority goes by age. You should probably be able to get your first choice right away, but if not there will be a vacancy within a couple of months so you can go there.

You don't have to live in base, but of course it would make it a lot easier. I'm a commuter based in DTW which has the best lines for commuting, but I'm still having a tough time. The lines this year haven't been very commuter friendly. (most trips start early and end late) Last year this time it was much better, so maybe it will get better later on. The schedules swing between wild extremes of almost zero commutability to a few months of very commutable lines.

Upgrade will be quite some time if you don't already have the required upgrade mins. (3500 TT) I would say a new hire is looking at a 5 year upgrade if they are very lucky. It's probably more like 7-8 years, but 5 years is best case scenario. We're getting our last plane this fall, and I doubt NW will award us anymore planes at least until our contract is ratified. Basically, be prepared to spend a long time in the right seat.

First year FO pay is just terrible. Expect to bring home 22-24k if you're lucky and don't have to sit reserve for very long. Second year only goes up a few grand. I've been on third year pay since last spring and only cleared 32k on my W2 last year. Our FO pay is worse than Mesa. 'Nuff said.

My recommendation? Don't come to Pinnacle unless you absolutely have no other choice. Almost anywhere is better. Pay sucks, work rules suck, relationship with management sucks, etc... I'm in the top third of the seniority list and hate this place. I can't imagine how bad it must be to be on the bottom of the list in a place like MSP where the lines are just unbearable even for the senior guys. Stay away unless this is your only option.

You forgot to gripe about the fact that you had to pay tens and tens of thousands of dollars to gulfstream just to buy your way into this job you hate so much. Poetic Justice.

 

[Rook]

You forgot to gripe about the fact that you had to pay tens and tens of thousands of dollars to gulfstream just to buy your way into this job you hate so much. Poetic Justice.

How many years of practice did it take you to become such a tool? You have it down to a science.

Rook
Looks like a high overcast.
Better ask for Type IV.

 

[mgg20]

DetoXJ- thats hillarious, I work on the ramp and we handle both 3M and 9E, and so many pinnacle right seaters get here and say, "I've flown both planes on this ramp", but I guess theres no more gulf to pinnacle pipeline, they're tired of losing planes I guess. Although I don't fly for either, I can safely say that both companies suck royally.

 

[PCL_128]

You forgot to gripe about the fact that you had to pay tens and tens of thousands of dollars to gulfstream just to buy your way into this job you hate so much. Poetic Justice.

Actually, it was only about $14k, but who's counting. I guess I can look on the bright side: as crappy as Pinch-nickle is, it's still better than having to work at XJ with a tool like you.

 

[Rook]

DetoXJ- thats hillarious, I work on the ramp and we handle both 3M and 9E, and so many pinnacle right seaters get here and say, "I've flown both planes on this ramp", but I guess theres no more gulf to pinnacle pipeline, they're tired of losing planes I guess. Although I don't fly for either, I can safely say that both companies suck royally.

Bet you'd sell out your ramp rat job to fly for 9E. Don't hate playa.

Rook
Looks like a high overcast.
Better ask for Type IV.

 

[Skaz]

Guys please, leave the bickering be. I asked for objective factual information.
PCL_128 has been decent enough to oblige me, if you want to talk trash about each other, please start a new thread to do it.

I have a serious decision to make and I need accurate information. Were all professionals, please act like it.

 

[jetbluedog]

Man........And these guys fly our families around......pretty scarey.

What a bunch of slave-worker fairies

 

[Rook]

Yeah good thing that MD-82 NWA crew was sooooo professional back in '87 out of DTW.

Rook
Looks like a high overcast.
Better ask for Type IV.

 

[Flybet3]

my 2 cents

Guys please, leave the bickering be. I asked for objective factual information.
PCL_128 has been decent enough to oblige me, if you want to talk trash about each other, please start a new thread to do it.

I have a serious decision to make and I need accurate information. Were all professionals, please act like it.

Hey Guy. Like PCL said, unless you neeeeed a job for the time being than go ahead. But let me tell you something, you're better off waiting 2 months to find another job than go to Pinch-nickle and spend anywhere from 2 to 3 grand in hotel accomodations. I stayed at a crash pad for 350 a months, besides money on food and gas i say I prob spend a good 2 grand. And for what??? for the CP to say to me "you ARE replaceable" just b/c I couldnt make a commute flight back to my base do to weather even after I notified scheduling in advance? They really dont give a SH!+ about new hire Fo's there. That's why after the CP said that to me & I already had a better offer (thank god) so I took my wings and IDs off threw them right at him and told him to go an F**K himself. Walked away and never looked back. The CP their is a total DIK, acts nice, but behind all that is a total DIKHEADED REDNECK...same for management, best luck to you and I hope you have a job soon so you dont have to go to that pathetic company....GOOD LUCK

 

[psycho]

Hey Skaz,

Would love to have a pilot with your profile on board. Having said that, looks like upgrades are going to slow down quite a bit even if we get more airplanes. (never know around here, in my 5 yrs here they just keep uppin the deliveries.) Even with more airplanes you would be #1200 or so. You would be a junior Fo or a sub junior Ca for many moons IMHO. Bases? As Fo you could hold any domecile, They are all similar to me but perhaps some of our Fo's could chime in. Ca senority order is Mem, Msp, Dtw. Our OG Rednecks love them some Memphissippi.(God blessed the south) West coast commuters like Msp (More direct flights goin west) And I guess the midwest and east coast guys are in Dtw with the black sheep. Skywest may be a good fit for you but I don't know what the movement is over there. Sorry bout all the hatin' but this board is where we let it all out. Hope to see ya in the right seat. WORD

 

[Skaz]

hey psycho, Ive got my zen right here, baby haha, thanks for the gen, to tell you the truth, right now I'm just looking forward to the possibility of having a job. Which company gets me, well well have to fight about that later

you guys have been most helpfull, thanks a lot