Pilot Protection at Skywest

[Redan]

At first I placed this post in another thread but now I'm thinking maybe my question deserves its own thread:

The longer I'm a pilot, the more I've come to realize how reluctant most of us are to discuss the "hard lessons" we've learned in our careers. What I do know for certain is that we all have them as we're all human.

As an FO I could tell many stories about flying with instructor pilots who come out on line to get a little stick time. These stories vary in degree up to and including having to take the controls to prevent him smacking the airplane into the runway. My how those flying skills tarnish while spending most of one's time in the back of a sim or in front of a classroom. When the tables are turned, and we line pilots come into the sim for training or prochecks, we are susceptable to having a bad day as well. (Not to mention that all IP's were not created equal). It can also happen on a line check or simply on line as we suffer those inevitable NASA Form/ASAP worthy brain fart events we all know we have.

I'm curious as to what protections are offered by SAPA and Skywest when pilots do experience these "hard lessons?" I've heard many stories of the "Up or Out" policies of Skywest. I wonder how many pilots are fired without recourse? The benefits of ALPA on a local level are often debated on these forums. I can attest to the greatest benefit, and possibly least discussed, is how ALPA steps up to protect the jobs of member pilots when these unfortunate human error issues happen. Another circumstance is when ALPA fights to get back the jobs of pilots fired for illegitimate reasons. Here at ASA, we've seen this happen countless times, and we do have recourse. Our contract has very significant pilot protections built in to prevent random or wrongful termination, and it works quite well. Many excellent pilots from various carriers owe their careers to ALPA after they went to bat for them. I wonder how these type situations are handled at SKWY?

 

[USCtrojan]

At first I placed this post in another thread but now I'm thinking maybe my question deserves its own thread:

The longer I'm a pilot, the more I've come to realize how reluctant most of us are to discuss the "hard lessons" we've learned in our careers. What I do know for certain is that we all have them as we're all human.

As an FO I could tell many stories about flying with instructor pilots who come out on line to get a little stick time. These stories vary in degree up to and including having to take the controls to prevent him smacking the airplane into the runway. My how those flying skills tarnish while spending most of one's time in the back of a sim or in front of a classroom. When the tables are turned, and we line pilots come into the sim for training or prochecks, we are susceptable to having a bad day as well. (Not to mention that all IP's were not created equal). It can also happen on a line check or simply on line as we suffer those inevitable NASA Form/ASAP worthy brain fart events we all know we have.

I'm curious as to what protections are offered by SAPA and Skywest when pilots do experience these "hard lessons?" I've heard many stories of the "Up or Out" policies of Skywest. I wonder how many pilots are fired without recourse? The benefits of ALPA on a local level are often debated on these forums. I can attest to the greatest benefit, and possibly least discussed, is how ALPA steps up to protect the jobs of member pilots when these unfortunate human error issues happen. Another circumstance is when ALPA fights to get back the jobs of pilots fired for illegitimate reasons. Here at ASA, we've seen this happen countless times, and we do have recourse. Our contract has very significant pilot protections built in to prevent random or wrongful termination, and it works quite well. Many excellent pilots owe their careers to ALPA after they went to bat for them. I wonder how these type situations are handled at SKWY?

Great Post Redan,

I'm sure some pilots are aware of some of the "other" benefits of ALPA. Attorneys, and Doctors are available to you free of any extra charge (dues cover this). Case in point...

I have a buddy (Captain) that recently had a Fed on his jumpseat. They got to where they were going and received a nuisance message. It subsequently disappeared. The Fed asked him if he needed to write it up. He responded by calling Maint. Control, asking them if he needed to write then now disappeared nuisance msg. up, Maint. Control specifically told him NO, he did not need to write it up. Within days he got a letter of investigation from the FAA stating they were investigating his actions by not writing up that msg. He then called ALPA, consulted with the ALPA attorney, was given specific information to submit to the FAA and the Company, and most likely will never hear anything of it again. Granted, I believe my buddy did nothing wrong, however, the fact he had professional help in his time of need gave him a lot of peace of mind. And it didn't cost anything extra for that piece of mind. This is just one example of numerous.

Trojan

 

[Formula 1]

Do yourself a favor and leave SkyWest as soon as possible. As one very senior pilot explained to me is that SkyWest management has the Ready, Fire, Aim management style. They hear rumor, shoot someone and then find out later that they shot the wrong person because they failed to get the full story. I had one SLC Chief Pilot (KH) stuck a letter in my file without my knowledge. I only found out when the PDX Chief Pilot (BV) told me about it. If I had applied to another Airline during that time I would have not been hired. This letter violated the (1987? or 1978?) Airman's Record Act in the way I was placed in my file. If I was informed of its placement, then I would have a legal course of action given to me under the Act. The letter was removed because it was not suppose to be there in the first place.

Do yourself a favor and leave SkyWest as soon as you can. Its only a matter of time that you will get a letter in you file too. The SkyWest pilot group can't even agree that the earth rotates around the sun. None the less agree that SAPA is as worthless as tits on a bull. SkyWest Pilots are too nearsighted to think about their own career. They are too worried about spending 2 percent of tax deductible money to eventually earn 5 percent more in the future with better work rules and QOL improvements. The Pilots will never have a union. SkyWest Management knows this and will continue to exploit this self serving behavior to their advantage.

Do yourself a favor and leave SkyWest as soon as you can. Don't waste your time trying to improve things. You will just get fustrated and more bitter. Your time is better spent getting a degree, a type rating, or filing out applications and working on interview preps. Trust me you'll be much happier. Don't get me wrong. SkyWest is a OK regional airline. Thats it. Its just happens to be a little better than the others ones out there.

 

[Redan]

Formula 1, I feel you're correct with one exception: The struggle to make things better at one carrier ultimately helps us all. So I don't want to give up. It is probably prudent to our careers to try to move on to greener pastures, but I want to leave behind a better place than I found when I first arrived. I strongly believe the closer we can get all DCI carrier's pilot groups to being on the same page the more we can fight this whipsaw effect the managements have worked so hard to engineer. While I'm not a Skywest pilot, I have confidence that you're just a little off base about them. And that this pilot group will have enough foresight to vote in ALPA representation.

 

[Freight Dog]

There is only one thing that's worse than having ALPA on your property - not having it.

 

[outtahere]

Amen!

 

[Formula 1]

Formula 1, I feel you're correct with one exception: The struggle to make things better at one carrier ultimately helps us all. So I don't want to give up. It is probably prudent to our careers to try to move on to greener pastures, but I want to leave behind a better place than I found when I first arrived. I strongly believe the closer we can get all DCI carrier's pilot groups to being on the same page the more we can fight this whipsaw effect the managements have worked so hard to engineer. While I'm not a Skywest pilot, I have confidence that you're just a little off base about them. And that this pilot group will have enough foresight to vote in ALPA representation.

Redan,

I was part of the UPA (based on Southwest in house union) drive at SkyWest. I got ALPA to donate $10,000 to the drive. I wrote letters and paid over $2000 for mailings out of my pocket. I cold called fellow pilots for support. I made contacts at SWAPA and CAPA. I even got the Wilson Center to question the SkyWest Pilots and many of them refused to participate. Some were out right angry that they were called. From the data we collected, its one divided, selfish pilot group. I gave a great deal of time and energy to try to improve the SkyWest Pilots QOL. I moved on and I very happy that I did. I highly recommend other SkyWest Pilots to do the same.

cheers,

Formula 1

 

[Redan]

Formula 1,

I for one, tremendously appreciate your efforts. We would all be vastly better off if there were more like you around. Best of luck!

Redan

 

[CSLewis]

Formula 1,
I'm sorry you don't have anything better to do than get on these boards and throw out insults to Skywest pilots. You've never met me, but apparently you belive I'm "too nearsighted to think about my own career" and "selfish."
I've actually come to find that the majority of pilots here at Skywest are good professionals and great to work with.
Maybe it would be good to put some thought into it before you broadly insult over 2,800 people.

 

[yellowfever]

Formula 1,
I'm sorry you don't have anything better to do than get on these boards and throw out insults to Skywest pilots. You've never met me, but apparently you belive I'm "too nearsighted to think about my own career" and "selfish."
I've actually come to find that the majority of pilots here at Skywest are good professionals and great to work with.
Maybe it would be good to put some thought into it before you broadly insult over 2,800 people.

CSLewis...mere christianity...

I have seen SkyWest screw over several pilots and I understand formula 1's frustrations. Maybe before you insult forumula 1 you should put some thought into it!

 

[pookie]

I had a SkyWest guy on my jumpseat a few months back and he was talking about the support that SAPA gives during grievances and FAA hearings. He was an anti-ALPA type. I started questioning his protection and gave him many examples of our protection, after awhile you can see his demeanor changing.

The truth is that SkyWest guys dont have any protection but the company likes to sugar-coat with their in house union. For you young folks, think about it next time you have a fed in your jumpseat or make a simple mistake. Is that 2% that valuable to you?

pookie

 

[John Pennekamp]

Any minute now, SkyNation and BrickTop will come on here and tell us that everyone fired from Skywest deserved it and that we "unionistas" are just a bunch of lazy bad workers hiding behind our union protection. Oh, and they're worried about what the union may do to the price of the extensive Skywest shares they own. But they have no personal agenda. Really.