Pilot opinions/advise on HS-125-800a

[HA25]

I have a family member seeking advise from me on Hawkers... I know the basic stuff, but I have no experience in them myself, but I figure if I went to a pilot message board, I'd bump into a guy or two who's flown one..

So here is the Q that I need answered.. What is the difference between the Collins EFIS models and the Honeywell equipped models as far as capability is concerned? And which model do you prefer? Also, any particular quirks I should be on the look out for with regards to the 125-800? We're looking at 1984-1994 year range..

thanks in advance..

 

[Rick1128]

I have a family member seeking advise from me on Hawkers... I know the basic stuff, but I have no experience in them myself, but I figure if I went to a pilot message board, I'd bump into a guy or two who's flown one..

So here is the Q that I need answered.. What is the difference between the Collins EFIS models and the Honeywell equipped models as far as capability is concerned? And which model do you prefer? Also, any particular quirks I should be on the look out for with regards to the 125-800? We're looking at 1984-1994 year range..

thanks in advance..

I have flown the Hawkers from 400 through 800. I like the aircraft. It is not a barn burner in the performance area, but is a steady reliable aircraft. A former employer has operated a 600Fan for the last eight years. They are so happy with it they are up grading to a 800A. The 800A's are primarily Honeywell equiped if I remember correctly. There are a couple out there with GNS-XLS FMS's in the aircraft. With the changes in the FMS navigation out there, they are becoming pretty much boat anchors. When KLN90B's have more navigational performance than the GNS, yes they are pretty much boat anchors.

Do a good pre-purchase inspection. I have heard of no complaints about Little Rock. Corrosen is a big issue with Hawkers. Chemical milling of the parts and TKS fluid seem to be the major causes. The British are extremely big on chemical milling. The wings and tail are de-iced with TKS fluid. Works well, just takes some getting used to.

Passenger seem to love the aircraft. Nice size cabin and comfortable, lav and small galley.

Just look long and hard and find a nice one. But be careful there are several on the market right now from a unnamed fractional operator that were purchased used, rode hard and put away wet.

 

[MauleSkinner]

I have a family member seeking advise from me on Hawkers... I know the basic stuff, but I have no experience in them myself, but I figure if I went to a pilot message board, I'd bump into a guy or two who's flown one..

So here is the Q that I need answered.. What is the difference between the Collins EFIS models and the Honeywell equipped models as far as capability is concerned? And which model do you prefer? Also, any particular quirks I should be on the look out for with regards to the 125-800? We're looking at 1984-1994 year range..

thanks in advance..

The Honeywell will do a lot more stuff (most of which isn't really necessary IMO), I, but to me it's less intuitive and seems to require more keystrokes than the Collins/UNS-1 setup. Of course, these opinions could be because I"ve got more time with the Collins/UNS-1

The biggest difference is probably in the training...as far as I know, only FSI-Houston has a Collins/UNS-1 euipped simulator. Not a big deal after a year or two, but can be kind of confusing initially.

As Rick said, the 800's are good airplanes, but a good prepurchase inspection is imperative. I would consider the Collins/Honeywell choice pretty minor in the scheme of things...just pick a good airframe.

Fly safe!

David

 

[HA25]

thanks guys.. I'll pass this on. Anyone else, feel free to chime in.

 

[westshan]

Wonderful airplane. Loved them and all their quirks. Sort of like owning an old Triumph motorcycle. However, any aircraft that can fly placidly back around the traffic pattern and land without event after having an engine shot off the airframe by a dud missile is okay with me. Oh, and, girls fly Hawkers, too. We just wear ugly flat shoes instead of attractive business pumps so we can step more easily over the result of their many fuel leaks on the hangar floor.

cheers,
Charlene

 

[LRvsH25B]

Go with Honeywell. The full intergration of the NZ2000 boxes with the SPZ8000 avionics suite is great. When you go to resell it, it will do wonders for the resell value, as long as you keep the FMS software/firmware (different from Database) updated. Doing so will make a big difference as well. Make sure any Honeywell 800a you buy has at least version 5.2, preferable 6.0, but 5.2 is good enough for what these boxes are capable of doing. Honeywell has PERF databases, Scrathpads, etc, so you'll be using what is the standard today on an aircraft of that stature.

 

[HA25]

Go with Honeywell. The full intergration of the NZ2000 boxes with the SPZ8000 avionics suite is great. When you go to resell it, it will do wonders for the resell value, as long as you keep the FMS software/firmware (different from Database) updated. Doing so will make a big difference as well. Make sure any Honeywell 800a you buy has at least version 5.2, preferable 6.0, but 5.2 is good enough for what these boxes are capable of doing. Honeywell has PERF databases, Scrathpads, etc, so you'll be using what is the standard today on an aircraft of that stature.

I hear you, I like Honeywell myself between those two (as far as FMS goes), having last flown the CE750... but I wondered if the Collins in the HS-125 was any good by way of features and capability, as the Collins in the Boeings, and Canadair's I've flown was pretty decent stuff.. especially in the moving map / depiction dept... but I guess the HS-125 doesn't have moving map ability.. correct?

 

[LRvsH25B]

I hear you, I like Honeywell myself between those two (as far as FMS goes), having last flown the CE750... but I wondered if the Collins in the HS-125 was any good by way of features and capability, as the Collins in the Boeings, and Canadair's I've flown was pretty decent stuff.. especially in the moving map / depiction dept... but I guess the HS-125 doesn't have moving map ability.. correct?

Exactly, any collins in a Hawker 800a is going to be old school. Efis 86/85? Unless there is a ProLine 21 Continuimun or a 800XP with the Collins setup, then I'd go with Honeywell. Collins is only going to be in some of the 1st few 800As, but probsbly not above s/n 100. I flew a 800A in the lower 200 s/n, and it had the Honeywell setup. It does a lot of things, but you just have to know how to use it properly and how to get it to do what you want. Honeywell makes you think and go in and get the info. There are easier units out there, but Honeywell is great equipment.

 

[Boilermaker]

No bad choice

IMHO you can't go wrong whatever choice you make. I fly 2 dirty 30's and one SN in the mid 100s. The 2 older ones have a hodgepodge of Collins/Honeywell w/ GNS-XLS's in them and they work great. Not as integrated as someone previously said, but who likes to be that automated anyway? Our newer A/C has the SPZ8000 setup w/NZ2000 FMS and it works great. (Just like the -800 sim at SFI. SFI also has a Collins/UNS sim but it is just for 800XP clients if I'm not mistaken). Full VNAV capability but most of us don't know how to use it! The aircraft is great, tons of gas and flies well on one engine (I've personally found out!). Hope you have many years of flying a great aircraft!

 

[Hawker800]

We have a 1987 model 800a. Love it. Equipped with Collins along with GNS-XLs' . They do a good job and yes we have a moving map on the MFD. Right now the GNS is NOT approved for type A/B SIDS or STARS. Its makers are working on that problem so we will see. There will be little fuel puddles on the hanger floor along with TKS fluid from the famous WEEPING WINGS. Have a good day.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Collins is only going to be in some of the 1st few 800As, but probsbly not above s/n 100.

Not true...ours is in the 220's and has Collins. Some of the XP's also have the EFIS 86 setup as well.

Fly safe!

David

 

[cjdriver]

800xp

I've only flown the XP with SPz Honeywell, and it is very nice. The Honeywell does tend to do wierd things at bad times, like clearing the flight director on the vnav coupled Paradise arrival to LAX. That sucked. We often asked the question 'what's it doing now?' Otherwise it's a sweet setup. I've heard the Proline blows the Honeywell away. I'd hate to fly less than either of these two. The auto transition from FMS to localizer mode is really nice as well. You can set up the localizer OBS ahead of time, and it will switch to loc mode when established. Very cool. If you like gadgets, it's great, if you don't, you may hate it.

 

[LRvsH25B]

Not true...ours is in the 220's and has Collins. Some of the XP's also have the EFIS 86 setup as well.

Fly safe!

David

By no means am I calling you a liar, but I have a hard time buying that there is a 800XP, a true 800XP, with an EFIS 86 setup. What box is hooked up to that EFIS 86? Are you sure about that? Do you have a S/N for that EFIS 86 800XP? I've seen 800XPs with Collins Proline 21, but never so much as heard a rumor about an EFIS 86 800XP.

 

[MauleSkinner]

By no means am I calling you a liar, but I have a hard time buying that there is a 800XP, a true 800XP, with an EFIS 86 setup. What box is hooked up to that EFIS 86? Are you sure about that? Do you have a S/N for that EFIS 86 800XP? I've seen 800XPs with Collins Proline 21, but never so much as heard a rumor about an EFIS 86 800XP.

OK...I MIGHT be a liar ...I've never actually seen an XP with the EFIS 86...I'm basing that statement on the fact that there's an XP sim at FSI Houston with EFIS 86 and UNS-1's. I just assumed that they wouldn't build a sim that didn't match an airplane.

Fly safe!

David

 

[Groundpounder]

By no means am I calling you a liar, but I have a hard time buying that there is a 800XP, a true 800XP, with an EFIS 86 setup. What box is hooked up to that EFIS 86? Are you sure about that? Do you have a S/N for that EFIS 86 800XP? I've seen 800XPs with Collins Proline 21, but never so much as heard a rumor about an EFIS 86 800XP.

Here ya go.......

http://www.aso.com/i.aso3/aircraft_view.jsp?aircraft_id=95176&return_url=/i.aso3/search.jspyyyyyiaso3sid=1xxxxxtypeid=4xxxxxsearchid=253751xxxxxregionid=-1xxxxxmode=xxxxxtypeid=4xxxxxmmgid=34xxxxxmodelgroup=falsexxxxxsearchid=253751xxxxxregionid=-1