pilot career

[jrob]

I am interested in becoming a pilot. I concerned because I am deciding to do this too late in life. I'm 47. I'm not doing this for the money, I simply want to fly. I know that there are some age limitations, so if I understand if I decide to go into commercial aviation, my time will be limited. For those of you who have the experience can you please help me answer a few questions:

1) Is it realistic for me to pursue a career as a pilot at my age. It will take probably 2 years before I have the training and hours to be hired by a regional or charter service
2) Is there an age discrimination issue that I should be prepared for?
3) Is there an area that I should strive for...in other words, rather than push for a job with a national airline, consider a job with an executive charter, cargo, air ambulance, etc...
4) Given the current job market, is this a realistic goal? Will it be realistic 2 years from now when I am in a position to actively seek employment?
5) Any other considerations or advice?

I am trying to decide whether to spend the money on training, which is quite expensive. I will gladly invest if I think I have a reasonable chance to pilot professionally until I'm at least 60. Any help and advice will be greatly appreciated.

 

[Timebuilder]

1) No.

2) Yes.

3) A good question to ask. Choices are few. See number 2.

4) IMHO, no, not after 9-11. Too many qualified pilots are still out of work. If you were 35 I'd give you a cautious "go." At 40, I now say "no."

5) If you have the money, use your current income to get a plane and a private license and enjoy flying. Become a CFI if you like to teach things. Have fun. It's a great hobby, but for many pilots, it isn't a very good "job."

I put your odds of having a satisfying "career" after two years of training at about 10,000 to one. You could become a professional instructor, but that will take time to build up, since you can toss a bottle of Hawaiian Tropic in Florida and hit five unemployed flight instructors.

The numbers are not good, and will be much worse if we are attacked again. I see that as being a matter of time.

 

[kevdog]

Before you do anything, go to a doctor and get at least a second class flight medical. If you can not pass this exam for some reason, you will not be able to work as a pilot.

If you "simply want to fly" and have money to do so, start on your private pilots license and take it up as a hobby. If you enjoy it, work on your instrument rating, buy an airplane, and fly.

If you are still interested in a new career, you are going to have to dedicate your life to hitting the books, getting your ratings, and finding an instructing job that you will fly your a$$ off in singles and multi-engine planes (this could be difficult).

Just getting these ratings to instruct could take 3-6 months at the quickest pace, and if you walked into a good job as an instructor (once again difficult), by the time you are 50 you have a chance of a regional hiring you. Your age could help get a job because a regional airline would think you will be with them until your 60. But even if you did this, you would be working with people probably in their 20's and making hardly enough money to live on for at least 3-5 years after your investment and hard work.

If you just want to fly, you might enjoy just renting or buying an airplane and keeping it a hobby.

Good luck with everything!

 

[414Flyer]

What you could do it get your instructor ratings, and teach part time (weekends, evenings) while keeping your current career.

Lots of people get picked up into corporate flying that way. But you would still have the safety and security of your current career, are still flying, and if something great happens to fall into your lap, thats great. If not, well you are not broke and living on ramen.

 

[46Driver]

1) No.

2) Yes.

3) A good question to ask. Choices are few. See number 2.

4) IMHO, no, not after 9-11. Too many qualified pilots are still out of work. If you were 35 I'd give you a cautious "go." At 40, I now say "no."

5) If you have the money, use your current income to get a plane and a private license and enjoy flying. Become a CFI if you like to teach things. Have fun. It's a great hobby, but for many pilots, it isn't a very good "job."

I put your odds of having a satisfying "career" after two years of training at about 10,000 to one. You could become a professional instructor, but that will take time to build up, since you can toss a bottle of Hawaiian Tropic in Florida and hit five unemployed flight instructors.

The numbers are not good, and will be much worse if we are attacked again. I see that as being a matter of time.

Agree with everything above. You can fly for fun, but don't expect to make a living at it.

 

[bobbysamd]

Toooo old

1) Is it realistic for me to pursue a career as a pilot at my age. It will take probably 2 years before I have the training and hours to be hired by a regional or charter service

No.

2) Is there an age discrimination issue that I should be prepared for?

You better believe there is. Take it from someone who has experienced it. I was a career changer sixteen years ago. I was 37, ten years younger than you at the time, and had already been flying for several years. It absolutely exists at the regional level and older career changers are targeted.

My age discrimination claims always engender stiff and caustic retorts from those who say it was me and not my age, or that my comments are ill-informed. Whatever. But here's a link to a recent discussion in which I proved my case by way of legal authority and expert comments. Please review carefully the cases I cited and Resume Writer's statements confirming the existence of age discrimination.

3) Is there an area that I should strive for...in other words, rather than push for a job with a national airline, consider a job with an executive charter, cargo, air ambulance, etc...

You could instruct. There is a great need in aviation for knowledgeable and dedicated career instructors. There are jobs at foreign airline pilot academies that pay good money and benefits, and where you would be treated with respect. You might have a chance at 135, freight or corporate. But forget about airlines of any kind.

4) Given the current job market, is this a realistic goal? Will it be realistic 2 years from now when I am in a position to actively seek employment?

If the economy improves, regional and majors furloughees will be recalled. Absorbing them may take a couple of years. You would be pushing fifty by the time you have a chance.

5) Any other considerations or advice?

I am trying to decide whether to spend the money on training, which is quite expensive. I will gladly invest if I think I have a reasonable chance to pilot professionally until I'm at least 60. Any help and advice will be greatly appreciated.

Except for instructing, and maybe freight or corporate, you are really starting way too late. For my $0.02 advice, reread my comments above and any others I posted on age discrimination.

If the only thing you want to do is fly, by all means earn your ratings and earn your CFI if you want to put your flying on a paying basis. But don't expect to make a career out of it at your age.

 

[zonker]

You can do anything you set your mind to.

I would recommend the corporate route...no mandatory retirement.



"Dwell in possibility"

-Emily Dickinson

 

[350DRIVER]

jrob,

I personally would look into the Mesa Airlines Pilot Development Program (MAPD) if I were you and if you have the flexibility and financial freedom to be able to go to Farmington NM for 19 months. This is by far the quickest way toget to the flight deck and many many people in your exact same position have done this, some even a few years older than you. I have met quite a few and age was never an issue for a Mesa slot.


You will be years away from a fractional company if you decide to go that route, competitive times are running very high and they are not going to be coming down anytime soon. I personally would not even contemplate going this route if I were you, after the "magic" 60 hits then you can go to the fracs. since by that time you should have plenty of flight time to be "competitive"..


The regional route would probably be your best route at your age. It would be very difficult to get in with a Flight Options or a EJ under 2500TT, new hire times are running substantially higher..
You are seeing quite a few regional guys trying to go to the fracs so that is not going to help either, nor is the fact that many furloughed guys are also going to these places due to job security and future potential.


3 5 0

 

[bobbysamd]

Institutionalized age discrimination

You can do anything you set your mind to.

But not if you're battling institutionalized opposition. In aviation, especially, you cannot fight city hall.

I would recommend the corporate route...no mandatory retirement.

Getting a corporate job is very much a matter of making contacts and getting to know the hiring decision-makers. No HR gatekeepers to get past, but you'll still be battling age bias.

 

[Draginass]

Fly for fun and enjoy it. Fly for money and hate it. Keep your day job. The unemployement situation in aviation isn't going away for many years. There's litterally thousands of highly qualified pilots unemployed or under employed right now and for the foreseeable future. Even if you get hired somewhere, you can barely support yourself on the salary it'll pay. Medical coverage will probably not be available, and you're getting to the age where that's important. You first couple jobs probably won't earn you enough to even pay the premiuims.

Very bad idea, unless you have a friend that's going to give you a job and you're independent financially.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

keep your current job.

This battered business does not need more "I dont care about money, I just want to fly" midlife crisis types. Its simply not JUST FUN for many of us! - its also our livelyhood.

You can fulfill your flying needs and keep your current job.

Get some ratings (support you local CFI), buy a Pitts, have a blast.

 

[enigma]

keep your current job.

This battered business does not need more "I dont care about money, I just want to fly" midlife crisis types. Its simply not JUST FUN for many of us! - its also our livelyhood.

You can fulfill your flying needs and keep your current job.

Get some ratings (support you local CFI), buy a Pitts, have a blast.

Dittos to Gulfstream. If you just want to fly, just buy yourself a Pitts, etc and leave the career to those of us who respect it enough to demand a decent wage.

regards,
enigma

 

[jethro]

jrob - First of all, while I'm sure most of the "don't do it" replies you have received are well intentioned and probably even good advice, frankly I find it repugnant for anyone to discourage you for self-serving reasons, namely that they need the money while you don't. Whether you start flying $25g's in debt or with half a million bucks in the bank is irrelevant - and if your situation is the latter, make sure you don't flaunt it because of the aforementioned jealous a$$holes. Unless you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth, a lot of people earned and saved money in jobs much more grueling than commercial aviation.

Use money to your advantage - you'll get your ratings quicker, potentially enlist with more reputable training outfits thereby getting higher quality instruction, cajole your way into a job, PFT, or whatever you like. Sure, the jealous types will chastise you, but reality is if you spend time caring about what they think about you, you won't get very far in life.

Now let me discourage you for the right reasons - money aside, as a junior pilot (assuming you make it to a 121/135 op), you're not going to spend a lot of time with the people that you should care about - your family. Are you ready to move to Detroit or some other $hithole for a couple of years and fly on Christmas and Thanksgiving? The biggest mistake you can make is to equate your weekend $100 hamburger flight in a 172 to a commercial job. Night and day.

Finally, age discrimination is real - while you have twenty years on me, even I have to contemplate the disadvantages of entering an aviation career due to seniority reasons. If you thrive in a meritocracy, this isn't it - no amount of ass kissing, hard work, or superior flying skills will bump up your seniority number.

If you're just starting to earn your ratings, you have plenty of time to decide, so do your research and go out and find successful and unsuccessful late-age career changers to talk to. And regardless of what anyone tells you, at least go and get your ratings - whether you pursue commercial aviation beyond that point or not, being able to fly is a gift that will pay dividends the rest of your life.

 

[enigma]

Jrob, It would seem that your request has ignited a bit of a firestorm.

My advice was/is not meant to discourage you from attempting an aviation career. I have no fear of the competition. Good Luck.

Just don't do it for nothing. Seriously, if you can afford to fly for fun, why the heck would you want to try it as a profession?

enigma

 

[350DRIVER]

Draginass has put it best... I could not agree more. Do it for "fun" not for work. Even though it has been a great ride if I could do it all over again I would have pursued the medical profession and would have been on my way to being a Thoracic surgeon. I flew with a guy who is one and boy it made me wonder ....

3 5 0

 

[pilotyip]

college

Do not waste your time getting a college degree, it has nothing to do with flying airplanes, if you want to be a pilot just start flying and see what happens, a college degree just opens doors at picky airlines, who want to cut down the size of their resume pile, and at your stage of life you are too old for those airlines anyway.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

oh boy. here we go again.

 

[Indigo]

frankly I find it repugnant for anyone to discourage you for self-serving reasons, namely that they need the money while you don't.

So do I.

The biggest mistake you can make is to equate your weekend $100 hamburger flight in a 172 to a commercial job. Night and day.

This is true too. My advice would be to keep your day job, get your ratings thru CFI, instruct for a while and then see what you think.

Finally, age discrimination is real - while you have twenty years on me, even I have to contemplate the disadvantages of entering an aviation career due to seniority reasons. If you thrive in a meritocracy, this isn't it - no amount of ass kissing, hard work, or superior flying skills will bump up your seniority number.

Age discrimination may or may not be real at the airlines, but it isn't much of a factor in charter or corporate. The charter company I work for has had new hires ranging from late 20s to mid 50s, and some of the mid 50s guys were career changers. I was in my early 40s when I got hired there. Charter and corporate tend to be meritocracies too. Your senority number *isn't* everything.

 

[wingnutt]

oh boy. here we go again.

well, pilotyip has got a point. if this guy is 47 and spends the next 4 in school, then an additional 2-3 years to get decent flight time...well, you see where this is going

 

[Vladimir Lenin]

farking one post flamers
the youth of today has lost the ability to bait effectively
sheesh