PIC time

[BMD]

I'm looking for some info on calculating flight time for airline applications. In P-3's, we'd usually carry three pilots on any flight over 8 hours. On a 9.9 hour flight as the PIC, I'd log 6.6 hours of pilot time, 3.3 hours of special crew time, and all 9.9 as PIC. If I was the PIC of the aircraft, can I count that 3.3 hours as pilot time. A reservist (furloughed NWA pilot) in my squadron said he did this when he applied and it was a generally accepted practice. If anyone in the know could comment, I'd appreciate it. BMD

 

[AArider]

What is unique about the airlines is they all want your flight time represented a little different - even different than what the FAR says. Typically, they let you only log (on their application) PIC time when you were the aircraft commander - which means you "signed" for the aircraft. So, regardless of which crew position (seat / bunk room) you were in, if you were the AC, then you get to use all the time as PIC. However, lets say you are an Aircraft Commander, but did not sign for the airplane (were just along as the C/P or 3rd Pilot), then by the letter of the law, you would log that time as SIC for the time that you were "in the seat". From my experience, the Ops guys that keep your logbooks, actually put in the time you were performing the duties of an AC. If they didn't, then it will make it more difficult (for you and the airline) to determine when you were actually in command. This may work towards your benefit.

Good Luck,
AArider

A master at many airline applications.

 

[Eddiespaghetti]

I am kind of in the same quandry, only as a single seat guy my hours dont come 9 at a time (1.5 at a time). I only counted pic hours after I left the RAG. I suppose I could go back and look at time in the rag when I "signed" for the AC and flew (solo) wing on an instructor pilot (maybe somebody can answer this) but I played it on the conservative side. From what I have been told in this forum, it is better to be on the conservative side than to try to get a couple of more hours that you may end up having to defend. Plus, as a military pilot, you are a known quantity, regardless if you are trying to put down 1500 pic hours or 1700 pic hours. Just a thought.

 

[Hawker1]

Flight Hours

Quick questions:
What's the average amount of flight time one would have after leaving the service (Navy or Marines) on his 8 year contract? I know it probably depends on the aircraft, but what's a rough estimate? Also, how many hours are the airlines looking for? What other intangibles do airliners see with a military pilot vs. a civilian pilot? Thanks & God Bless.

 

[spanky2]

The only place I have ever seen serious nit-picking about PIC was the dreaded United Scantron. Every where else seemd to use more common sense. But...be conservative. As far as how much time after 8 years...my experience from a career in USAF fighters is about 300 hrs per year. Add in a shooting war or a bunch of deployments (OSW or ONW) and that could be 500 for that year. Companies such as SWA and FedEx have conversion factors for MIL to Civilian time. I think SWA uses 1.5 and FedEX uses 1.3 .... little help from a FedEx or SWA type.

Good Luck.

 

[BMD]

how much

I'd say on average, navy guys coming getting out after their commitment usually are between 2000 & 3000. That's where I'm expecting to be. BMD

 

[Eddiespaghetti]

Navy tactical aviators are coming out with between 1700 and 2500 hours (Hornet and Tomcat guys). S-3 guys on the top end of that because thier sorties are longer. This depends on if you went to OEF or OIF, you build a lot of hours during those events. On the bright side of that, all but around 300 hours is multi engine jet PIC. P-3 guys get more hours but they dont start to build the PIC time until they get a little more senior in their fleet squadrons.

 

[Eddiespaghetti]

I agree that looking at all parts of Far language, this time could be considered PIC time. PIC can be logged for any time you are solo, not rated and in pursuit of a rating. However, each airline application will further hadcuff you with restrictions on what "they" consider PIC. Ex: Alaska does not count any time when you were a student (an Alaska guy can correct me if I'm wrong) yet Southwest does not care (you could probably count the time with them). In general, just make sure that you read the fine print on applications and dont get stuck having to defend something at an interview. This is just the guidence I have been given, not from an actual airline interview. Someone else may be able to put in their experience from actual interviews.

 

[AArider]

Marine fighter guys probably average about 150-250 hours a year - on the lower end for AV8B guys, maybe a bit higher for F/A18 guys. But, don't multiply that by 8 for your committment, 'cause you aren't going to fly for all of that. If you are lucky, you will fly 5 years of those 8.

By the way, SW allows for a 0.3 conversion based upon sorties - as does FedEx. JetBlue allows for a 0.3 conversion for every hour you've flown!

AArider

 

[pony251]

PIC hours

Eddie, When I did the interview thing last year I counted all of my solo hours as PIC. Patmack is right, somebody had to be flying the airplane. The common man theory says this should be OK. ACA had no problems with me logging it that way.

 

[Steeler Fan]

Solo time vs other time

I personally found it easier to explain flight time by excluding "other" or "special" time. It really doesn't pass the sanity check (for me and for some who may interview you) to log time that is not primary or secondary as PIC or SIC.

Note: I counted ALL Instructor time as PIC...I am the PIC regardless of my proximity to the actual controls.

I'm not sure if Evaluators counted Evaluator time (but I think many did not).

Counting solo time as PIC is VERY justifiable (as long as your logbooks are in good shape).

I used my military flying history report and had NO Problems...I also had an EXCEL spread sheet that showed how Primary/Secondary related to PIC/SIC.

I personally would error to the conservative, but there is no standard.

Good luck.

 

[kingairip]

AIR inc has a good article that address this subject precisely. You can find it on the guestframe of www.jet-jobs.com. Here is a link:

http://www.jet-jobs.com/guestframe.html

From there, look to the left at Free Samples...click on Career Articles. The article is titled "Clearing the Air on Logging PIC"

The bottom line....most (though they all differ) airlines consider PIC time = A time. The SCT you logged when you signed for the plane counts as PIC time.

Good luck.