PIC minimums

[jackjensen42]

what's the deal with companies that don't type-rate right away. is this a practice that's going by the way-side?

in your experience what is the minimum total time necessary to receive a type rating? what is it based on (TT, talent, merit, @$$ kissing)? what should it be based on?

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Its all about the money.

If you are talking airlines, most majors (at least the one I was with) will type you after your first year WHEN you change to a new aircraft ie. at your next initial training after your probabtion period, even if you are not upgrading to Captain.

If you are talking corporate it is all about the money. Your average airline type (737, DC-9 etc.) will run you about 4000 to 8000 bucks. The average bizjet type is more like 20 to 25000 bucks. SIC training only runs them about 6 to 8 grand.

Airline sims are not in high demand since all the majors own their own, so the price stays lower. Very few, if any, corporations own their own sims so the price stays very high.

I have seen a few companies that still type everyone but they tend to be the big boys that are household names and operate 10+ airplanes.

 

[KINGAIR PIC]

I assume you are talking about corporate flying, and if you are, I would say that it depends on the company you are flying for. I've known guys get on with a company and get typed right away. I've also known others who strictly are SICs for awhile.

Typing someone right away with a private corporation is a big risk, because once that person is typed, they are valuable to any other company that has the particular type of aircraft. Most companies usually want to see you stay with them for awhile before typing you, and even after getting the type, they want a signed contract stating you will work for them for 6 months, a year, or maybe more.

Hope this helps.

 

[Ty Webb]

The better corporate flight departments type both pilots, as do the fractionals (or used to). The insurance companies still want to see some time in type, though, before they will allow a newly typed pilot to serve as PIC.

I had 2100TT/300 Jet SIC when I got my first type (Westwind). It was challenging, but entirely doable.

BTW, an airline type rating is more expensive than someone had listed. My syllabus for the B717 was 16 hours of non-motion sim (FTD) and 40 hours of Level D sim . . . and that was for a FO Initial. I believe our sims cost around $600./ hour, so the sims alone were about $16,000. for an FO, plus six weeks in a hotel in MIA, a rental car, salary and perdiem . . . or about the same as my corporate Westwind Type rating at Simuflite.

Bottom line- the better corporate flight departments will type you off the bat, while the Crappier places (read- battered pilot shelter posing as a flight department) will give you traiing in the airplane and claim it is "better than simulator trainng".

 

[Rick1128]

Most of the 'airline' types being offered out there are by companies that have an in with the particular airline they use. The price is low because you will use the sim when it is not being used by the airline or higher rate clients. Usually 2400 to 0500 LT. Since the sims are constantly running, there is little if any additional cost for the airline.

It has been my experience at Simuflite and FSI that the type rating course and the SIC course are almost identical in cost. You are doing the same class work and the same amount of time in the sim. About the only difference is the Designated Examiner. and the type ride. The last time I did a type a Simuflite the cost was the same for either course.

As for insurance, it really depends. If a company gets a new type of aircraft, no one has time in type. Insurance companies look at the pilot, his experience and background, claim record and so on. What you have been flying in the past will have a bearing on restrictions and rates. Aviation insurance companies generally have a good handle on the skill level required to operate specific aircraft. Military pilots are accepted with lower hours, not so much because of the type training they have gotten, but more because of just about everything they fly has the same or higher performance than what they are being insured in. When you are dealing with insurance companies there is no blanket statement.

So for when you will get typed. It really depends on the company. Charter companies will generally type someone when they need another captain. Some 121 carriers will type people during a recurrent or if the pilot works a deal. Others will type the F/O's that do international/flag operations. It has been my experience that a$$ kissing will not help a whole lot. First you have got to have the ability to perform the job. And it is more than just handling the aircraft. Any 'peter pilot' can do that. It involves thingking ahead and resolving problems before they become problems. Dealing with people inside and outside the company. Getting the job done safely, legally and efficently. Knowing which side your bread is buttered on.

Upgrade has to be based on merit and ability to do the job. Then followed by senority. It is the only fair way to consider this.