Penny for your thoughts...

[Captain Morgan]

What's everyone's take on this new Multi-crew Certificate that ICAO is pushing and I keep hearing about? Just wondering...

 

[Axel]

The puppy mills will like it. Not sure I'm too keen on a crewmember that is not qualified to carry passengers in a Cherokee.

On the other hand it is progressive qualification that indoctrinates the young into airline flying from almost day 1. Seems like a hybrid between the traditional civilian progression and ab initio.

These are gut feelings. I have insufficient facts on the subject to actually form an opinion.

 

[Goose Egg]

Might be the wave of the future, for all I know, but I'm certainly glad that my certificates aren't of that kind. Sad thing is that I probably spent less than one seeking a multi-crew certificate... A lot less.

-Goose

 

[BoilerUP]

Not sure I'm too keen on a crewmember that is not qualified to carry passengers in a Cherokee.

Agreed.

I'm not sure how good a captain someone might be if they never previously were PIC in even a single-engine piston.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Bad idea.

 

[QuasarZ]

There was an article about it in the ALPA magazine the other day.. I know I wouldn't want to do it. Gratned, you get saturated with all the 121 flying, rules, regs, operations etc... but you don't have any "real" world flying experience... which is also a lot of fun!

 

[flyer172r]

I don't like the idea of a multi-crew only license. I can see these guys getting so dependent on leaning on others for their decisions that as an FO they won't be able to speak up when a captain makes a decision. And as a captain, they won't know what to do when they need to make the big decisions.

Even the 500 hour wonderkids have at least a little experience being in charge.

 

[A-Track]

I don't like the idea of a multi-crew only license. I can see these guys getting so dependent on leaning on others for their decisions that as an FO they won't be able to speak up when a captain makes a decision. And as a captain, they won't know what to do when they need to make the big decisions.

Even the 500 hour wonderkids have at least a little experience being in charge.

The real learning begins when you fly by yourself. Everything is always easier when you have an instructor to help out and make decisions, but you have to actually think when your flying alone.

 

[flyer172r]

The real learning begins when you fly by yourself. Everything is always easier when you have an instructor to help out and make decisions, but you have to actually think when your flying alone.

Exactly, which is why I don't like the idea of people flying airliners when they've never had that experience of flying by themselves.

 

[Kaman]

Hello,
If it will allow the airlines to fill the seats cheaply then it will be something that we may very well see in the U.S. However, I am against on the grounds that it will serve to drive down wages, because the airlines will demonstrate that these pilots aren't as "qualified" or some such drivel.

 

[tyuwerty]

I really don't know if it is that bad. I started flying 2 crew around 1200/1500 hours or so. I know have around 7500. In the past 13 years / 6K+ hours, I have never once flown a flight single pilot. I have been left seat for 5K+ of that time making the decisions.

I think it has been ingrained as second nature that I have someone beside me backing me up all the time. It would feel really strange to hop into a 172 by myself and do touch and goes. It would also be a different type of flying that has very little to do with the type of environment that I make my living in.

Flying for a foreign airline now, the FO's I fly with routinely come on line with 250 hours on average. Basic Multi/Comm/IFR, they go through an intensive initial program, when they are done they know their job well and make excellent FO’s.

All of the local Captains have gone through this program and I don’t doubt their abilities for a second. I don’t hesitate to let my family fly in the back of their airplanes.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

I really don't know if it is that bad. I started flying 2 crew around 1200/1500 hours or so. I know have around 7500. In the past 13 years / 6K+ hours, I have never once flown a flight single pilot. I have been left seat for 5K+ of that time making the decisions.

I think it has been ingrained as second nature that I have someone beside me backing me up all the time. It would feel really strange to hop into a 172 by myself and do touch and goes. It would also be a different type of flying that has very little to do with the type of environment that I make my living in.

Flying for a foreign airline now, the FO's I fly with routinely come on line with 250 hours on average. Basic Multi/Comm/IFR, they go through an intensive initial program, when they are done they know their job well and make excellent FO’s.

All of the local Captains have gone through this program and I don’t doubt their abilities for a second. I don’t hesitate to let my family fly in the back of their airplanes.

Scary!

 

[Gr82Aviate]

What's everyone's take on this new Multi-crew Certificate that ICAO is pushing and I keep hearing about? Just wondering...

Not good!

 

[Mr Biggelsworth]

This is the way they have done it overseas for quite a while. I flew around the Caribbean for 2 years building the MCC time ((I was a "captain" on a Caravan allowing someone that had no time (<250 hours) sit next to me)) just to get my head in the door in the EU. It is just as hard to get a job over there as it is to get a job at Southwest. That is what they want, the only problem with over there is that is costs twice to three times as much to complete everything, but when you factor in taxes, well, it's just not worth it unless your parents are royalty.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Far more harmfull than cabotage... has ALPA taken a position on it yet? The current 121 minimums are too low and ALPA should be pushing for higher limits..... it's both a safety issue and a collective bargaining issue.... If ALPA actually started pushing for tighter requirements, I would give to the PAC....

As it stands now, we have people in BOTH seats that aren't qualified to be there....

 

[mamba20]

Flying with someone who isnt even qualified to solo a light airplane? Scary!!!

 

[Captain Morgan]

I know ALPA has it's hands full, but maybe we could get them to notice this and strike this thing down before the ball get's rolling and it's too late.

 

[PCL_128]

I know ALPA has it's hands full, but maybe we could get them to notice this and strike this thing down before the ball get's rolling and it's too late.

ALPA noticed this a long time ago. Captain Paul Rice gave a briefing on this issue to the BOD last year. IFALPA is keeping a very close eye on the program and making recommendations to ICAO on how the curriculum should be changed to give the pilots more experience.

 

[Captain Morgan]

Good to know thanks. We gotta CYA.

CM