Pending GII job offer

[Winged Sig]

In need of some info and advice. I am in the beginning stages of discussing a captain position on a GII based in the NY/NJ/CT tri state area (site will eventually be moving as part of this deal). It will be a private owner who I have flown before under 135 and he took a liking to me and offered me the Captain position. The plane is currently on a 135 cert. and flown with their pilots, but eventually will be moved off and flown strictly 91 and who knows, I may be then managing it as well. I'm in need of any pitfalls to look out for, salary/benefits etc. to negotiate for as a captain as well as managing the plane , basically any and all advice anyone would care to offer. I don't have many details as I just got the call but I need to make a long list of questions to ask and and things to discuss. I appreciate your time in responding. Thanks. WS.

 

[Rick1128]

If you are going to be the Captain of a single aircraft corporate operation, you ARE managing the airplane. You will be responsible for managing costs and maintenance. Keep a few things in mind. Many corporate operations have been closed because costs got out of hand. And not just fuel and maintenance. The nickel and dime stuff seems to really get to many owners. Keep your costs under control and your job will be much more stable. Things like bottled water, catering and the like can add up quickly if not controlled. Do you really need to stay at the Hemsley Hotel? Why not a Courtyard or Fairfield? Shop around for fuel prices. With a G2, pennies a gallon add up quickly.

Internationally there is liitle control over fuel prices, in that there is normally only one 'FBO' on a majority of international airports. And staying at a Marriott or J.W. Marriott when international is not a bad decision (good security, food of a known quality, etc).

You need to use your knowledge of the aircraft and figure an annual budget. And find out what amount of flight time the owner is figuring on. Then add about 50% to that. If the aircraft is not on CMP.Net, get the aircraft on it. Also get on Mygulfstream.com. A lot of good information there for the management side of things.

Good luck.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

In need of some info and advice. I am in the beginning stages of discussing a captain position on a GII based in the NY/NJ/CT tri state area (site will eventually be moving as part of this deal). It will be a private owner who I have flown before under 135 and he took a liking to me and offered me the Captain position. The plane is currently on a 135 cert. and flown with their pilots, but eventually will be moved off and flown strictly 91 and who knows, I may be then managing it as well. I'm in need of any pitfalls to look out for, salary/benefits etc. to negotiate for as a captain as well as managing the plane , basically any and all advice anyone would care to offer. I don't have many details as I just got the call but I need to make a long list of questions to ask and and things to discuss. I appreciate your time in responding. Thanks. WS.

If the deal is that you really WILL be "managing" the deal you need to negotiate very high. Thats in itself is practically a full time job. Endless phone calls PLUS flying trips. You will find the flying will come second to all the BS calls from owners, CFOs, accountants, FBOs, fuel contracts, Jepps, aircraft stock, training centers, assistants, assistants assistants, MX centers (GII yikes)....you have massive headaches in your future (potentially).

Dont negotiate a number based on not managing it and 1 yr later find yourself bustin' your a$$ 24/7 at the same pay. I also say the hell with that "promise of a review in 6mts/yr" thing....thats typical negotiating tactics designed to pacify and screw you. IMHO get your money before signing the dotted line or forever hold your peace.

and as far as Marriotts and security overseas...I respectfully disagree with RICK1128. Nothing screams US of A faster than Marriott. They are full of Americans and to me are potential targets (ummm JAKARTA). I try and stick with more International names like Intercontinental, Ritz, etc...sometimes they are even cheaper than Marriotts...and the food/service is generally better if you are on hotel lockdown....then again, with a GII you may not be doing any Intl. I dont think they can even go to Europe anymore? (noise) just a guess.

Now, A#1 concern imho -- HOW MANY PILOTS? that is the telltale sign of QOL. 2 pilot? read that as ZERO QOL. But I do admit that QOL is very very high on my personal list. Others go strictly for pay - thats fine. YMMV. I just think its a vital detail to have pinned down before signing on.

and if this G is the one based at a small airport in CT with promises of bigger a/c down the line...I have heard its a pretty tough job. I would PM you more details, but I know none. Just passing along RUMORS. take it as that. I claim no accuracy.

GOOD LUCK!!

 

[PHX767]

...then again, with a GII you may not be doing any Intl. I dont think they can even go to Europe anymore? (noise) just a guess.

South America and Mexico! Come on down, amigo! Bring your noisy, smoke belching jet and buy much fuel!!

 

[Gulfstream 200]

South America and Mexico! Come on down, amigo! Bring your noisy, smoke belching jet and buy much fuel!!

Mexico...

Isnt that where all GII, Lear 25, Sabres, Jet Commanders, etc go to die?

and fuel...man I wouldnt even want to THINK what a fuel budget is on a GII these days!

They must be in a very unique market at this point..

 

[stratman560]

Now, A#1 concern imho -- HOW MANY PILOTS? that is the telltale sign of QOL. 2 pilot? read that as ZERO QOL. But I do admit that QOL is very very high on my personal list. Others go strictly for pay - thats fine. YMMV. I just think its a vital detail to have pinned down before signing on.

Listen to Gulfstream! I don't know if you have been down the two pilot, one aircraft road in the past but it is plagued with those wonderful 14 or in a few instances in my past.....21 day trips. Ive had a few months were my electricity bill was $5! Its a tough road to hoe but Im just a young whipper-snapper trying to build some hours and give that resume the boost it needs.....plus no fam or kids to put through college.........(that I am aware of but its still a SOB sometimes. Im always prepetually waiting for that next phase inspection......or as I call it....VACATION!

Good Luck Dude!

 

[PHX767]

Here is a neat site...

http://www.stageiii.com/comparison_giib_overall.asp

This is one of the hush kit vendors. About $1 Milllion an engine. Whoa!

A neat feature of this site is that you can compare selected planes side by side. Click on "details" and you will see the fuel flow comparision, among other things.

 

[CapnVegetto]

G200 is so right. Don't fall into the 2 pilots 1 aircraft trap. I've been there and done that with just a little ol' LR-35. I'm doing it now with a CE-550. If that plane is gone......you're on it. NOT GOOD. It's different with me, because I fly a little plane with lots of day trips. I'm currently on my 3rd day off in a row, and the next scheduled trip isn't until May 8th. If you're in a Gulfstream, it's a whole different animal. People don't buy G-II's to hop down to Mike-Zero-Three airport for a Burger. They buy G-II's to go long range for a long time. I talked to a former G-II driver from that area about 2 weeks ago, and he said he used to work for a guy that kept him gone about 25 days a month on average. He said he had one trip that had him on the road 40 something straight days. He quit the job and took a $40K paycut because of the terrible QOL.

Bear in mind, managing an airplane is a FULL TIME JOB. I'm doing it now, and you spend a LOT of time on the phone, just like everyone says. You're constantly looking for ways to pinch pennies in order to help with your bottom line. Going to a new airport? You're gonna be calling every FBO on the field and seeing who's gonna give you the best fuel deal, hotel deal, parking deal, etc. You'll be looking for parts cheaper than the factory wants to sell 'em. (Cessna is ridiculous). You'll be taking care of what the boss wants on the plane as far as catering, stock supplies, etc. (We just spent almost $200 bucks b/c the boss wanted cups with his tail number in the airplane, some companies wanted twice that much). You'll be compiling expense reports, receipts, bills, cost projections, and since you're a pilot, your boss will assume that you have an encyclopedic knowledge of everything in the universe related to aviation. My boss called me up a couple of weeks ago and was surprised that I didn't instantly know if there was an airport in Big Sandy Wyoming. Hell, I've never been to Wyoming, I can name maybe one city in Wyoming. I had to research where we could get into and out of, and it took quite a bit of time and planning.

The point is, make sure you're getting paid for what you are doing. Being the CP, DO, whatever you want to call yourself is a LOT OF WORK. You should be compensated for it. Don't sell yourself short.

 

[G100driver]

One other thing ... If you are out spending 100+ nights on the road I have got to repectfully disagree with Rick1128. Take care of yourself. We always stay in Hiltons or Embassy's (as little as possible). The last thing that I am going to do is sleep in uncomortable rooms with rubber pillows and rock hard matresses. I am going to get the best rate that I can, but at the same time if is expensive that is not my fault. If a flight department is worried over and extra $75/night per crew member then you have got REAL problems and should not be looking at this job in the 1st place.

Our policy is simple ... Embassy or better (will take Garden Inn if it is known)

Airline: coach domestic, business class or better international (except MX and Canada unless over 6 hours)

Meals: do not be stupid and go out and drink 25 year scotch and order '97 Brunello's and 1998 Silver Oak Napa.

The way you are treated on the road is a great measure of financial health and overall QOL of life.

We are also a 2 pilot 1 MX 91 operation. I would agree that we are an exeption to the general QOL rule discribed by G200. We have have a carte blanc to contractors and only fly about 250-300 hours a year. Yes the 21 day trips to Europe can be tough, but the trade off is I do not fly for another 2 1/2 weeks with no worries about the phone ringing telling me I have to take a charter ... or fly the boss. In my 4 years I had one pop up.

Good luck to you!

 

[Rick1128]

One other thing ... If you are out spending 100+ nights on the road I have got to repectfully disagree with Rick1128. Take care of yourself. We always stay in Hiltons or Embassy's (as little as possible). The last thing that I am going to do is sleep in uncomortable rooms with rubber pillows and rock hard matresses. I am going to get the best rate that I can, but at the same time if is expensive that is not my fault. If a flight department is worried over and extra $75/night per crew member then you have got REAL problems and should not be looking at this job in the 1st place.

Our policy is simple ... Embassy or better (will take Garden Inn if it is known)

Airline: coach domestic, business class or better international (except MX and Canada unless over 6 hours)

Meals: do not be stupid and go out and drink 25 year scotch and order '97 Brunello's and 1998 Silver Oak Napa.

The way you are treated on the road is a great measure of financial health and overall QOL of life.

We are also a 2 pilot 1 MX 91 operation. I would agree that we are an exeption to the general QOL rule discribed by G200. We have have a carte blanc to contractors and only fly about 250-300 hours a year. Yes the 21 day trips to Europe can be tough, but the trade off is I do not fly for another 2 1/2 weeks with no worries about the phone ringing telling me I have to take a charter ... or fly the boss. In my 4 years I had one pop up.

Good luck to you!

G100driver, All I was saying is be reasonable. I personnaly have seen too many corporate operations shut down because the costs got out of hand. And by that I don't mean fuel or maintenance, I mean the little nickel and dime stuff. Things like spending over $150 each a day on food, staying at the Four Seasons or the Hemsley with a $100 limo ride downtown. The average G2 operator is not a blue chip operator anymore. He will watch the pennies. Be smart and be reasonable. By all means stay at a decent hotel. Depending on how the aircraft is registered, try getting travel industry rates at hotels. Many FBO's have good rates at hotels. Use them. Yes, it takes phone calls and some effort That is why there are two pilots on the aircraft. Delegate duties. Surprisingly, some of the better hotels will be cheaper than the less expensive ones if you shop properly.

Internationally, most people understand that it will be more expensive. So do stay at an upper end hotel. Security is better and your digestion will thank you. A word here, if it doesn't look right, smell right and/or taste right, it probably is not right and don't eat it. Being sick on the road is lower than misserable. I used the Marriott chain as an example as that is our company's policy (flight department controlled) One reason is that there are more Marriott chain hotels around the world than any other chain. Being a Platium Member garruntees a room with 24 hours notice and with our boss we need it. I have had no complaints about the other sisters of the Marriott chain (Courtyard, Fairfield or Residence Inn).

If you are going to management the aircraft, they will expect you to manage costs. Part of that is justifying those costs. Sometimes they are just beyond your control. Other times they are not.

 

[airspeed]

Let me guess, is this for John Kicksted?

 

[G100driver]

Rick1128: Agreed with all you just posted. Goes in line with 25 year scotch and high dollar wines.

It is always hard to remember that you are not the super-millionare when you are surrounded by excess. Your international points are dead on.

Good points ... just Fairfields SUCK

 

[Shamus]

Mexico...

and fuel...man I wouldnt even want to THINK what a fuel budget is on a GII these days!

I flew a G-IIB the other day from Miami to Boca (40 nm, about) at 2 am VFR direct and still burnt almost 3K lbs. insane.

 

[Bank-n-Yank]

It sure sounds like Kjedsvad in BDR.....