PC Flight Sim Software

[gfvalvo]

Hi All,

I'm looking for recommendations on PC flight simulator software. The main "mission" is practicing instrument procedures in high performance piston singles and light twins. As such I'd like the sim to have a good data base of navaids, ILS facilities, and airports. IFR GPS with database is a must and software plug-ins for different boxes would be even better. Support for glass cockpit and steam gages. Finally, control of winds, night/day, ceilings, and visibility.

Program should support USB yolk and rudder pedals, but I'm not interested in spending $3K for a full-blown PCATD.

I'm sure Microsoft's new Flight Sim X has outstanding graphics and it would be cool to use it to "fly" a Lear or 737, but not at the expense of quality and realism in my main requirements. Stated another way, is it a flight sim or a game?

What are the alternatives?

Thanks.

 

[gsrcrsx68]

It's a good sim. Has a garmin gps, soon to have a glass panel(if it doesn't already), ok selection of planes. I used mine a ton for my rating...worked just fine.

I think it is loaded with the same db as a lot of the other sim packages.

 

[ms6073]

On Top 8: http://www.asa2fly.com/product1.asp?SID=1&Product_ID=103&

X-Plane: http://www.x-plane.com/default.html

Elite 8.0 (probably most advanced IFR PC Flight Simulator but also the most expensive): http://www.flyelite.com/software.php?product_id=5

 

[Amish RakeFight]

I would recommend "On Top 8.0" by ASA. It contains all of what you ask. You'll need a yoke though, something like the CH Products Yoke works well.

http://www.chproducts.com/retail/y_fsyusb.html

.

 

[Jafar]

I really dig Flight Simulator X. It does have the G1000 in the deluxe version, and it's a pretty good representation of it. Real world weather, and the ATC is way better than previous versions. The only hang up is you've got to have a very high horsepower machine to run it properly.

 

[falcon20driver]

you dont need rudder peddals to practice an ils or other instrument approachs, or a fancy flightsim yoke, a cheap analog 20 dollar joystick works well.

ms flightsim 2004 works great for keeping sharp on the gauges, its all about scanning and thinking about what you're doing, not about how an expensive toy yoke moves the attitude, a stick moves it just the same, set the vis to 1/2 mile and shoot any approach in the world, complete jepp database, goodluck finding a value as good as fs2004, 29 bucks or cheaper.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

you dont need rudder peddals to practice an ils or other instrument approachs, or a fancy flightsim yoke, a cheap analog 20 dollar joystick works well.

ms flightsim 2004 works great for keeping sharp on the gauges, its all about scanning and thinking about what you're doing, not about how an expensive toy yoke moves the attitude, a stick moves it just the same, set the vis to 1/2 mile and shoot any approach in the world, complete jepp database, goodluck finding a value as good as fs2004, 29 bucks or cheaper.

I've used both On Top 8.0 and MS FS 2004. There is definately a difference. The types of aircraft available and the weather settings are not as easily configured in MSFS as they are in On Top. MSFS seems like it is more geared towards the average non-pilot or recreational flyer whereas On Top has more authentic IFR-like settings and aircraft panels. It is more for the instrument rated pilot who wants to practice approaches rather than all the fluff and scenery found in MSFS.

Just my opinny.


.

 

[seethru]

I've used both On Top 8.0 and MS FS 2004. There is definately a difference. The types of aircraft available and the weather settings are not as easily configured in MSFS as they are in On Top. MSFS seems like it is more geared towards the average non-pilot or recreational flyer whereas On Top has more authentic IFR-like settings and aircraft panels. It is more for the instrument rated pilot who wants to practice approaches rather than all the fluff and scenery found in MSFS.

Just my opinny.


.

I have not used On Top 8.0, so I cannot offer an opinion on that program. But I will say that the MSFS product is an outstanding adjunct toward instrument flight training.

I don't recall the weather being difficult to set, and obtaining real world weather is simply a mouse click. The real world nav database and procedures makes practicing your approaches before your checkride a snap.

Since you obviously do not have the sensation of movement, I don't think MSFS as useful in basic maneuvers (i.e. stalls, steep turns, etc).

As mentioned earlier, pretty cheap. Especially what it costs for an hour in a real plane with an instructor.

Edit: Just checked the price of the On Top simulator. $112! I don't know. MSFS is heavily supported and at a fraction of the price.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

In MSFS, it seems that once you set the weather, you can't reset or adjust the parameters after you've begun the flight. There is more freedom in setting things such as flight and weather parameters with On Top.

 

[Publishers]

On Top and Elite are really pure flight simuators designed for practice and practical experience. FSX and FS2004 have to work more on the scenery and different not flying effects to get the market that they are trying to attract. If you are in it strictly for the learning, go with the first two, for fun and a bit of learning, FSX.

 

[gsrcrsx68]

In MSFS, it seems that once you set the weather, you can't reset or adjust the parameters after you've begun the flight.

Sure you can...you can even setup a separate instructor station with MS Sim.

It is a funny debate. I wouldn't be suprised to find out that the "guts" of the programs where reused by each company, but if some of you can tell the difference, I won't dispute your claim.

I can say I have used the ms sim the most but have use a pcatd also. To me, same-same...neither are actual ac, both have the most important features, the most important of all (to me) being the timing factor and task management required. As far as whether or not you get exact readings and responses off gauges I personally couldn't care less. You don't even get the same readings from ac to ac so why would I care on a simulator? If money is not a factor, buy'em all and compare for yourself. If it is a factor go with MS.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Sure you can...you can even setup a separate instructor station with MS Sim.

Apologies for being a little uninformed with MSFS, but could you explain to me how. I usually opt for launching On Top for practicing approaches since there seems to be many more variable that I can control throughout the flight. But how would one go about changin the weather once it is set andthe panel is on the runway. From the panel, it seems that you can only access the map window which allows you to only change position, airspeed, altitude and heading. There doesn't seem to be an option that allows you to go back to the "create a flight" section where parameters can be adjusted. Also, the GPS feature seems a little limited too. You can only create flight plans prior to creating the flight not during.

Anyway, I've had On Top a little longer and only recently purchased MSFS. So, if you've got some tips etc. for MSFS I'm all ears. Thanks.

 

[gsrcrsx68]

if you are running in full window mode press alt, then select world, then weather. You can change weather, then return to your flight.

If you wanted to, you could open an instructor staiton on a seperate connected computer and control weather without pausing(I think, I have never tried that though).

Amish, what do you use your sim for? Do you fly it a lot?

 

[time builder]

Another vote for Microsoft, as long as you know what's real, and what's not. FS2004 has the Garmin, functions like the real thing. FS2002 was pretty good too.
As far as aircraft go, you can always download aircraft and panels from cd-roms or internet sites like simviation.com. Many are unrealistic, but there's a few programers who have real life experience and can program well.

BTW, the King Air 350 on Microsoft really helped me with BE99 training, just divde the torque settings by two and drop the zeros (ie T/o power 1700, try 85% on the king air, 1400-70% for climb, and 1100-55% for cruise).
Speeds work remarkably similar, just remember to put your condition levers to low idle for flight. Have fun.

 

[gfvalvo]

I would recommend "On Top 8.0" by ASA. It contains all of what you ask. You'll need a yoke though, something like the CH Products Yoke works well.

RakeFight,

I downloaded the On Top 8 demo to give it a try.

Liked the features. But, I found the simulation to be very squirrelly in the pitch axis. Much more difficult to maintain constant altitude or climb/decent rate than in an actual aircraft. Very small yoke changes seemed to cause large deviations in the VSI. Perhaps one issue is lack of tactile feedback while applying elevator trim - you can't feel the change in the yoke pressure as you move trim wheel. Also, my current yoke is an older CH Products legacy analog controler. May need to upgrade to newer USB device.

By the way, I had the same complaint about an older Jeppesen FS2000 sim I used. However, that was with the same yoke so maybe it's got to go.

Your experience?

PS - I was VERY impressed with tech support at ASA. I needed help with software drivers for the yoke and got to talk to a very knowledgeable person right away. No "Press 1 for this, Press 2 for that, etc". Try that with Microsoft!!

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Thanks for the tips in MSFS. My PC would maximize the screen, preventing me from accessing the windows drop down menus. I can infinitely adjust the weather now!

 

[Amish RakeFight]

RakeFight,

I downloaded the On Top 8 demo to give it a try.

Liked the features. But, I found the simulation to be very squirrelly in the pitch axis. Much more difficult to maintain constant altitude or climb/decent rate than in an actual aircraft. Very small yoke changes seemed to cause large deviations in the VSI. Perhaps one issue is lack of tactile feedback while applying elevator trim - you can't feel the change in the yoke pressure as you move trim wheel. Also, my current yoke is an older CH Products legacy analog controler. May need to upgrade to newer USB device.

By the way, I had the same complaint about an older Jeppesen FS2000 sim I used. However, that was with the same yoke so maybe it's got to go.

Your experience?

In general, most flight sims are going to be more sensitive than the actual airplane. This is actually a good thing. If you can practice to the point where you have good control over the heading and altitude you should be able to do a better job in flying an actual plane on instruments. The On Top is defintately a little sensitive in pitch, but after getting used to it, you can hold altitude within 20' in all the AC types available. It is definately feasible. As far as getting the trim right, it's gonna take practice to find where the sim wants to trim to be. Here's a litte tip to get it trimmed properly a little quicker. After you're at an altitude and have cleaned up the plane (cowl flaps for instance, will change the trim when retracted), you can engage the AP ALT mode and the sim will auto trim for the altitude. Once you see the wheel stop moving, disengage it and the trim has been set for straight and level. I've had the On Top 8.0 for a few years and I find it quite helpful when I'm feeling rusty.

 

[gsrcrsx68]

ok, geek confession:
I wrote a program for my pocket PC so that I could use the touchsreen to control MS simulator. Basically in stead of knowing all the key controls you could just use the touchscreen for gear, throttle, flaps, radios, VORs and on and on.
I thought it was a good compromise between the home computer and the pcatd. It would be better with a fullsize monitor and some better graphics but it worked ok.
The pictures aren't so great but if you view them full size you'll be able to get the idea.

http://www.tricksweb.com/t/data/HPIM1451.JPG
http://www.tricksweb.com/t/data/HPIM1450.JPG
http://www.tricksweb.com/t/data/HPIM1449.JPG
http://www.tricksweb.com/t/data/HPIM1448.JPG
http://www.tricksweb.com/t/data/HPIM1447.JPG
http://www.tricksweb.com/t/data/HPIM1446.JPG
http://www.tricksweb.com/t/data/HPIM1445.JPG

 

[Amish RakeFight]

...it's okay, most pilots are geeks deep down.

Funny pics.

I do actually have the CH USB Yoke which has levers for the MPT, flaps, gear, trim, timer, and brakes. Makes it a little easier than using your PDA. But what you did was creative. It's a few bucks (the yoke) but well worth it in the long run. It costs less than an hour of flight time and will enhance your instrument flying on the PC. No need for rudders though, as it autocorrects.

 

[time builder]

RakeFight,


By the way, I had the same complaint about an older Jeppesen FS2000 sim I used. However, that was with the same yoke so maybe it's got to go.

Theres a way to adjust forces and sensitivities on Microsoft I forget what menu it's under. Also, if you have privledges on the programming (most downloads allow this), you can use gmax to tweak it to feel and perform like you want.