PBS at Netjets?

[Dooker]

I heard Netjets was thinking about getting away from the 7-on, 7-off schedule and going to a "bidding" system similar to what we have at Flex. Any truth to that?

Also, what are Netjets' rules as far as scheduling is concerned for your first and last days on?

Thanks!

 

[CA1900]

I heard Netjets was thinking about getting away from the 7-on, 7-off schedule and going to a "bidding" system similar to what we have at Flex. Any truth to that?

Very little truth to that. Yes, we're getting a PBS, but we're not "getting away" from the 7-and-7 at all. What we're doing, if the new TA passes, is replacing our current reserve system with a fixed 18-day schedule that will use a PBS to tailor the schedule to the pilot's desires if possible.

The PBS will only have three kinds of variables the pilot can enter: Preferred days off, Preferred tour lengths, and Preferred length of time between tours. Our current 18-day reserve schedule can vary day by day, but pilots bid and are assigned two pairs of hard days off, that the schedule works around. As I said, this new fixed schedule, built with a PBS, will replace that reserve schedule.

Also, what are Netjets' rules as far as scheduling is concerned for your first and last days on?

It's a work day like any other; they can airline you, have you fly trips, or have you sleep in the hotel. You cannot work over 14 hours of duty (even just airlining home at the end) unless you agree to it.

A few specific differences: On the day before your first day off, you'll be briefed for a show time by 6pm. It won't change. Also, on the first day, if they have you report before 8am local, that time is paid at overtime rates, as is any time past 9 hours of duty on that first day, if you reported before 8.

On the last day, the only rule is they have to get you home within 14 hours of duty, and by midnight home-base time. If they don't get you home by midnight, they pay you a penalty of two extended days' pay (totaling about $642 under current contract; $937.50 under the TA). So they have a real financial incentive to get you home!

Hope that helps.

 

[Dooker]

It does. Thanks a lot.

Do you have a link for pay under the new agreement? And has that gone into effect already?

 

[CA1900]

Do you have a link for pay under the new agreement? And has that gone into effect already?

Not yet; the votes aren't counted until December 7th, so we don't know yet if it'll pass. (There are some changes to the work rules that some guys aren't thrilled about. For most of us, it looks like a great improvement overall, so I'm hopeful it'll pass. We'll find out in 9 days!


As for the numbers, here's a thread where somebody posted those:

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=105743


Enjoy!

 

[GOULET!]

How do guys handle the 7 off/on schedule. I have to say I have never done it before but that is about the only thing that turns me off about NJ. Obviously 7 off is nice but how do people with family's do it with the 7 on part?

 

[freighthumper]

How do guys handle the 7 off/on schedule. I have to say I have never done it before but that is about the only thing that turns me off about NJ. Obviously 7 off is nice but how do people with family's do it with the 7 on part?

Thats funny, I was thinking about going to netjets so I would only have to be gone 7 days in a row. If you think 7 days on is that bad, you might be in the wrong profession.

 

[fischman]

How do guys handle the 7 off/on schedule. I have to say I have never done it before but that is about the only thing that turns me off about NJ. Obviously 7 off is nice but how do people with family's do it with the 7 on part?

Me being gone for 7 days is good for my marriage. It makes her appreciate me when I'm home.

 

[Wankel7]

Hum, the PBS at flex doesn't work very well for pilot satisfaction. It seems to be because we don't have a large number of pilots.

I wonder how PBS is going to work at NJ. Would the PBS system optimize the pilots on the PBS system? Or would it be weighed against all the pilots system wide?

I really haven't heard good things about PBS before.

 

[gunfyter]

I think only about 10% - 15% of the pilots will bid the PBS... rest will stay on 7&7.

 

[HiSpeedFlyer]

How do guys handle the 7 off/on schedule. I have to say I have never done it before but that is about the only thing that turns me off about NJ. Obviously 7 off is nice but how do people with family's do it with the 7 on part?

You actually get very used to it, the best part of it being that you can schedule things in your life without waiting for the month before to see if you got those days off you needed. Thats what I like about the 7n7.

Granted, day 6 and 7 can get very rough sometimes and you can get homesick, but I definately agree with Fischman, It does improve the marriage, she does appreciate me more. She also pushes my ass out the door on day one as so she can regain her sanity.:smash:
Another thing to think about a 7 n 7 schedule,Goulet, a weeks vacation automatically turns into a three week hiatus. A good perk, methinks.

 

[Dooker]

The thing I've found is that the being gone part ain't so great, but at least when I'm home, I'm really home. I don't have to worry about the phone or the Blackberry ringing non-stop, don't have to sit up late doing work like my wife (she's a schoolteacher ... always doing lesson plans or grading papers).

There's always gonna be trade-off's, no matter what you do. Unless you a pimp. Then it's all good.

 

[ozpilot]

On the last day, the only rule is they have to get you home within 14 hours of duty, and by midnight home-base time. If they don't get you home by midnight, they pay you a penalty of two extended days' pay (totaling about $642 under current contract; $937.50 under the TA). So they have a real financial incentive to get you home!

Hope that helps.

Right now you also have an option to stay on duty until they get you home. At $70 per hour for a 5 year Captain that gives them a real incentive to get your home! That goes away if IBB passes.

 

[CA1900]

Right now you also have an option to stay on duty until they get you home. At $70 per hour for a 5 year Captain that gives them a real incentive to get your home! That goes away if IBB passes.

On the flipside, the automatic double extended day goes away if IBB fails. That was a "try before you buy" LOA; we only "buy" it if we vote in the TA.

Which do you think is more likely: a realistically-scheduled after-midnight, or milking the overtime clock for 15+ hours? Under IBB, an after-midnight will pay a 5-year captain $1655.08.

This past year, I've had six realistically-scheduled after-midnights, and exactly one incidence where I was able to milk the overtime clock because they couldn't get me home that evening. I've made far, far more money on after-midnights.

 

[Guitar Guy]

And to chime in on some of what CA1900 has said, if you are returned after midnight (i.e. returned home on your first scheduled off day), you are given recovery time on the first day that you are next scheduled to work. The time is one-for-one up until noon. If you are returned after noon, the company must drop that entire first work day of your next tour.

So along with the money, the company has another incentive to get a pilot home as a late return impacts crew availability later in the month.

As for the 7/7, my wife really likes having me home for a week at a time and knowing what days I will or won't be home. It makes scheduling get-togethers and other events much easier. I used to think that being gone 7 days would be tough but it usually goes by pretty quickly, especially if you have a good partner to fly with.

 

[FLYLOW22]

How do guys handle the 7 off/on schedule. I have to say I have never done it before but that is about the only thing that turns me off about NJ. Obviously 7 off is nice but how do people with family's do it with the 7 on part?

Years ago when I started this whole adventure, I couldn't fathom how to even pack for a 7 day trip.

Now it's the norm.

It fels more like a 5 day trip with 2 days of NO STRESS commuting on either end (because you travel on a ticket).

Sometimes there is flying on the 1st or last day too...

Family life is fine from my perspective. I'm back for a straight 7 with no interuptions.

 

[gutshotdraw]

You can think about it this way too. You go out for SIX nights, then you're home for EIGHT nights. If you're lucky enough to live in a popular destination city as I do, sometimes you get to sleep in your own bed in the middle of a tour.

Bottom line, don't let 7 and 7 hang you up on whether to apply to Netjets....after your first vacation, you'll never want to go back to any other schedule.

 

[learflyer]

You rookies. It's not even hump day at flops until day 5! For you guys, it's day 3.5!

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I, too, was worried about the 7 days in a row away from home being long.

But, then I remembered that I'm usually away from home more that 10 days, and it's on day 10 that I start really not liking it. I've been gone 20+ days LOTS of times. My longest two times (at my airline) were 31 and 32 days. 7 days sounds like a dream.

cliff
GRB

 

[gunfyter]

Very few people dislike 7 days on enough to bid another schedule choice.

 

[netjetwife]

...Obviously 7 off is nice but how do people with family's do it with the 7 on part?

My husband started out on the 17 day schedule (no longer used) and had shorter tours so I was worried that our family wouldn't like him being gone for 7 days. The adjustment was easier than I thought it would be. The 7&7 has the advantage of less airline travel for the pilots and fewer "daddy's leaving" days for the kids. We have 2 routines now instead of the more hectic lifestyle we had on the 17 day schedule.

GSD is right. 7 days of vacation gets you 21 duty free days--hard to beat! Even when a pilot isn't senior enough to get vacation during the summer, having 7 days off at a time means that a family can have lots of mini vacations while the kids are out of school. Good luck! NJW

 

[Guitar Guy]

NJW is right on

My wife also really likes the 7/7. When I started at NJA, the 17-day schedule was not the schedule that I would have wanted due to the short periods off between tours. Plus, it made planning that much more difficult.

With 7/7, my wife knows when I'd be home and when I wouldn't. She also stated, like NJW, that having me gone for 7 days at a time wasn't as tough of an adjustment as she thought it would be. And those 7-day stretches at home are great. Couple that with a 7-day vacation period and it's an incredible amount of time off at once.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

NJW: NICE avatar. Black is my favorite color.

What % do U think the IBB will pass by?

cliff
YIP

 

[netjetwife]

I think that the opportunity of the IBB proposal will appeal to most pilots and their families--low 80s. I realize that's an optimistic number compared to other guesses, but I believe that the here and now offer will win out over the crystal ball gazing. Regardless of the final count, I think those involved will be glad to move on to other projects that have been temporarily put on hold.

Thanks, Cliff! I like black, too, in painted firniture pieces and in boots.

 

[Guitar Guy]

We'll know fer-sure in one week about the voting results.

NJW - is your avatar a picture of one of your Halloween costumes? If so, you weren't dressed like that the last time that I saw you.

 

[Fozzy]

Me being gone for 7 days is good for my marriage. It makes her appreciate me when I'm home.

That is so true.

 

[netjetwife]

We'll know fer-sure in one week about the voting results. If I'm the one who ends up eating crow over my guesstimate, I'll take it fried with a glass of iced tea, please...

NJW - is your avatar a picture of one of your Halloween costumes? If so, you weren't dressed like that the last time that I saw you.

GG, the pirate look is a recent thing, but my hair style is the same. I got the typical female pirate costume but also bought some regular clothes that have a touch of the pirate look about them (different avatars). If you are able to join us for dinner again I'll be happy to dress like a pirate and we'll go out for Indian food again.

 

[x402]

Details are beginning to emerge on the NJA 18 Fixed Schedule and the first thing that is being relayed to crews is that, it is not seniority based and the initial input from crews will be a 3 day block they want off and whether they want 6 or 7 day trips. PBS had turn into 17+1 from the OLD days.

This is so leveraged to the company I find it hard to believe anyone will bid this DOG. One nice thing is if only 5% of PIC's bid this POS that's all the SIC's will get. So all those big $$$ new hires are expecting to be on the Reserve are dependent on the Company making the PBS work. Hopefully this might, urge the company to do the right thing. Boy is this getting old.

 

[Scrapdog]

Hi!

I, too, was worried about the 7 days in a row away from home being long.

But, then I remembered that I'm usually away from home more that 10 days, and it's on day 10 that I start really not liking it. I've been gone 20+ days LOTS of times. My longest two times (at my airline) were 31 and 32 days. 7 days sounds like a dream.

cliff
GRB

LOL - 32 days? Ha, chump change. Try 3 to 6 months away from home...and oh by the way, you're not sleeping in a hotel, you're sleeping in a tent. And that's just the AF folks - the Army folks it's more like a year. Once you do that, then get back with me and we'll chat over a beer.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I WAS going to include my mil stuff, but I figured it's not really relevant, since we're comparing airline jobs.

I only had to spend less than 1/2 my time in a "tent". It had enough room for 12 (we had 4 in it), had a wooden floor, and was heated and cooled, so it wasn't realy a "tent". I mostly stayed in a 3rd world worker compound outside KKI, in crappy little dorms.

cliff
YIP