Pax during 61/141 training flights...?

[CDVdriver]

We recently had an increase of relatives or friends of current PPL students coming along on training flights.
I'm not sure this is such a wise development. A passenger getting injured during a training flight (PPL)
is obviously a legal nightmare waiting to happen.
I have no problem with spouses/relatives coming along on the occasional dual cross country flight, or
another student coming along on a dual night flight.
The main issue is people who are not doing any training at our school riding back seat with a friend or relative.
Obviously a good way to get new students but that's not my point here.
How do you guys deal with these situations? Do you have anything in the rental agreemant excluding this?
Review it on an individual basis?
Have not been able to find anything in the FARAIM yet....
Thanks

 

[nosehair]

No PAX on training flights

We simply don't allow it. It is stated policy up front. Generally, having a pax will deter training. The instructor and student have to limit their activity to considering what will be ok with the pax - emergency simulations,etc. Yeah, we make exceptions to the rule on a case-by-case basis. short x/c flights with a close relative, especially mom and/or pop who is paying the bill, but we really discourage pax on training flights.
And that doesn't even think about the legality of it being considered a "paid sight-seeing flight" or charter flight. I won't even go there.

 

[350DRIVER]

It is not a charter flight nor is it a sight seeing flight by allowing the student's relative, friend, lover, puppy,etc, sit in the back of the aircraft and "observing" the training flight. This is obviously up to the flight school and CFI, I had never had a problem cooperating with these requests as long as it did not interfere with the lesson/flight objective, weight and balance wasn't an issue, and it was at the appropriate phase of the student's flight training. I typically would allow the backseat rider to listen in to us if we had the jacks in the back but prevented them from talking until we got back on the ground since some can be quite talkative to say the least. I never looked at this issue to be a big deal at all.


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[midlifeflyer]

I do them. I won't go an do maneuvers on one, but I have no problem with doing an additional cross country. Ideally, I will wait until the later stages of training and choose an airport that the student has not flown to before. If anything, I think the added pressure of going to an unfamiliar airport and having to "perform" in front of a future passenger, while still having the CFI there can be a very valuable non-curriculum training opportunity.

At the other extreme, I encourage folks taking a introductory lesson to bring a close family member with them. It becomes difficult for a parent to =not= continue with their kid constantly saying, "But Mom, that was so cool!"

I suspect that there may be some issues in a Part 141 setting that don't exist in the more informal Part 61 environment.

 

[nosehair]

Actually,there is no difference in 61 & 141 regarding pax on training flights. It is more of a "volume" thing. With regularly scheduled training flights with - say, 30 airplanes and 200 students, and young,inexperienced instructors, management has to establish policy for mass transit. Time doesn't permit the case-by-case assesment of the situation. I agree that it is a good thing for students to have the additional pressure of a family member or friend "looking over their shoulder" while performing. But if it is left unchecked in a high volume environment, it will become a "joy-ride" school.

 

[Night_Flight]

Many school's will not allow any type of passengers abord training flights besides the schools students, staff and other pre-approved aviation people. With my 141 school, it was a matter of insurance.

-Night_Flight-

 

[LewisU_Pilot]

Many school's will not allow any type of passengers abord training flights besides the schools students, staff and other pre-approved aviation people. With my 141 school, it was a matter of insurance.

-Night_Flight-

Ditto at my 141 school. However they just started enforcing it.

 

[Matterhorn]

As long as the guest doesn’t interfere with the training I’ve always allowed an occasional ride. I don’t have a problem with it unless it becomes excessive. I had one student who always wanted to bring a friend along. After a few lessons I told him it was interfering with the training course and he had to stop it. I’ve had back seat riders throw up too. (In a bag thankfully.) At times we’ve simply dropped them off at the airport and continued our lesson. The guest must never be allowed to control any aspect of the lesson.

 

[CDVdriver]

So the general consensus seems to be that passengers can be allowed on occasion.
What we had in mind was something in the following lines:

Only our instructors in a supervising role, anybody else only by prior arrangement and approval.
Kind of leaves us a way out in special circumstances.
If anybody is carried( besides a CFI) the flight is pretty much going to be straight and level only no maneuvers.
That leaves cross countries and such.
Students enrolled at our school could backseat if they are in a similar stage of training.

 

[standaman]

Sometimes it can be distracting to the students knowing that they have somebody that knows them in the back seat. They may get embarrassed. Either that or thier friends will give them flack for bad landings when they get back. I don't think it is too good an idea if the people know each other real well. Just as long as the two of them handle it okay and there are no problems afterward.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Sometimes it can be distracting to the students knowing that they have somebody that knows them in the back seat. They may get embarrassed. Either that or thier friends will give them flack for bad landings when they get back.

Interesting the diferent perspectives. This is exactly why I think it's a =good= idea and a valuable training experience for the student (at the right point in the curriculum of course!)

 

[350DRIVER]

Sometimes it can be distracting to the students knowing that they have somebody that knows them in the back seat. They may get embarrassed.

Why not break em in early? If this is a career choice then this isn't even the tip of the iceburg. Career minded students need to learn this from day 1. It was always my belief to not always conform to the norms with regards to what most will do.... Be creative and think outside of the box, your students will one day thank you.

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[mizzouguy]

We don't have a policy about it and I personally don't have a problem with it, but do restrict some maneuvers. One advantage of it is that they learn how the airplane flies with a passenger and also how to do a proper passenger briefing. I always make them do the weight and balance, takeoff data etc. I always felt it was never a good thing to have a brand new pilot out there who never had anyone else in the airplane except his CFI until he was a pilot.