Past Bankruptcy Pay Cuts?

[Showtime]

Anybody who went through past bankruptcies at other carriers care to share how much their take-home pay was cut?


-Showtime

 

[pilotgolfer]

Anybody who went through past bankruptcies at other carriers care to share how much their take-home pay was cut?


-Showtime

Its like a bad dream, so my memory might be a little foggy. ATA's bankruptcy was around 30% but that quickly went to 100% when things really started unravelling. At my current job...the bankrupcty lead to a 10% cut.


These numbers were related to pay rates. When you factor in having to downgrade/change seats...the percentages were much higher.

 

[135Drvr]

It will depend on how far down the food chain one falls. In my case I fell through everything in the fleet (really)- right down to the street (15 months furloughed). Over all I'd say your looking at a 40% pay cut and maybe a little more when you factor in increased health care costs and dumping more money into your 401K to try to have some kind of retirement fund.

Important safety tip: when they issue you the new stock, sell it immediately! Our stock has never been worth more than the initial issue price.

Best of luck to you all.

 

[Dan Roman]

My guess is AA won't take much if any pay cut but they will lose work rules. Reason? They already have concessionary pay in place and the courts will look at pay relative to others when that decision is laid out.

I've gone through C11 and the reality is the biggest pain comes from the rumors and uncertainty, but the bottom line is you get through it, you still fly airplanes when you go to work and the most important things in life (family, friends, what you do with your time off) are all still the same.

AA isn't going to disappear, before you know it, it will be a totally new airline, you are already shedding management personel that needed to go and you may very well be in a position of growth coming out of this.

The bottom line is, you are going to hear a lot of crap, and it will all turn out to have been untrue when you look back on it.

Good luck and hang in there!

 

[Hansoma]

100%...

 

[SWA Bubba]

My guess is AA won't take much if any pay cut but they will lose work rules. Reason? They already have concessionary pay in place and the courts will look at pay relative to others when that decision is laid out.

I've gone through C11 and the reality is the biggest pain comes from the rumors and uncertainty, but the bottom line is you get through it, you still fly airplanes when you go to work and the most important things in life (family, friends, what you do with your time off) are all still the same.

AA isn't going to disappear, before you know it, it will be a totally new airline, you are already shedding management personel that needed to go and you may very well be in a position of growth coming out of this.

The bottom line is, you are going to hear a lot of crap, and it will all turn out to have been untrue when you look back on it.

Good luck and hang in there!

C'mon,.... really Dan?

You're actually saying something that I agree with 100%?! What's this world coming to? More importantly, what the hell is FI coming to?

Bubba

 

[mesaserf]

Mesa: 0.00% Year to a year and a half from now? Maybe 100%

 

[formerdal]

Delta was 32% in an attempt to stave off Bankruptcy and then another 14% in BK. These numbers do not include loss of pension and a myriad of other contractural losses. The overall compensation reduction was well in excess of 50%...

 

[xjhawk]

My guess is AA won't take much if any pay cut but they will lose work rules. Reason? They already have concessionary pay in place and the courts will look at pay relative to others when that decision is laid out.

I've gone through C11 and the reality is the biggest pain comes from the rumors and uncertainty, but the bottom line is you get through it, you still fly airplanes when you go to work and the most important things in life (family, friends, what you do with your time off) are all still the same.

AA isn't going to disappear, before you know it, it will be a totally new airline, you are already shedding management personel that needed to go and you may very well be in a position of growth coming out of this.

The bottom line is, you are going to hear a lot of crap, and it will all turn out to have been untrue when you look back on it.

Good luck and hang in there!

Same experience here, its the rumors and uncertainty that made it horrible. But then again, we lost aircraft so I was displaced from my aircraft, then my base (from which I lived), and then was assured a furlough when I was in downgrade class. The furlough never happened as a lot of pilots jumped ship to another regional but AA is not a regional. All I can say is those judges can do whatever they want. Your sick time and your vacation is on the block too. Remember that. I wish you all well and hope that you are not merged or lose aircraft. Good luck

 

[Dan Roman]

C'mon,.... really Dan?

You're actually saying something that I agree with 100%?! What's this world coming to? More importantly, what the hell is FI coming to?

Bubba

LOL (sorry I'm told LOL is out of style but for some reason those little smily faces don't transfer over on my computer!)
Truth be told I'm guessing we all would get along fine in person. I would guess even OYS would be well mannered on a SWA jumpseat! Hell I could probably even handle Fubijacker on my jumpseat for 5 hours!

 

[ualdriver]

Anybody who went through past bankruptcies at other carriers care to share how much their take-home pay was cut?


-Showtime

At UAL it was 40-something% off the top of my head. Then add the work rules, loss of pension, etc., to that.

In my opinion, I don't think the American guys are going to take that big a hit in pay. Back when we went through bankruptcy, there was a huge disparity between United's (for example) pay, work rules, and retirement vs. the low cost carriers (SWA, JetBlue, Valujet, Frontier, etc.) that dragged us down. And our management referred to their low wages, crappy work rules, and lack of retirement as a reason for needing to "modify" our contract frequently during the bankruptcy process.

I think with American, as their management looks around the industry, they're going to see some disparity, but certainly not to the extent it was almost a decade ago. Something bad is likely to happen to their pensions. They will likely take a hit in work rules where you'll get the crappy LCC work rules we're all stuck with, and your pay will take some sort of hit, but I would bet money nowhere need the 40%+ hits we took. Loss of scope is what would scare me the most.

Good luck.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Dan,

I think it's gonna be in the neighborhood of $40 an hour. That brings them in line with the USAir USAPA scale.

Besides, that would make it easier to merge the two carriers.

 

[BentOver]

Loss of scope is what would scare me the most.

Good luck.

Bingo.....


Those 70-130 seaters are coming....(not sure what size "regional" their making these days, but I suspect atleast a 100 seater will show up somewhere at some regional)

 

[B727Driver]

Delta was 32% in an attempt to stave off Bankruptcy and then another 14% in BK. These numbers do not include loss of pension and a myriad of other contractural losses. The overall compensation reduction was well in excess of 50%...

Does the General/OYS know this?

 

[waveflyer]

Bingo.....


Those 70-130 seaters are coming....(not sure what size "regional" their making these days, but I suspect atleast a 100 seater will show up somewhere at some regional)

Don't even f^cking think about it- illegal or not- nobody should show up for work if they attempt that

 

[dojetdriver]

Anybody who went through past bankruptcies at other carriers care to share how much their take-home pay was cut?


-Showtime

At UAL it was 40-something% off the top of my head. Then add the work rules, loss of pension, etc., to that.

In the spirit of what can be answered, in other words, all the OTHER factors besides hourly rates excluded. Below is the UAL contract rates at DOS, with the bottom section the rates at the expiration of the CBA. Compare the to what is payed now I guess to see how much JUST the hourly was. Sorry for the formatting issue;

747-4 747 777 DC10F DC10 767 320 727 737-3 737

1yr 312.53 292.44 270.35 263.05 239.21 221.55 211.56 199.36 188.28 186.46
2yr 312.53 292.44 271.89 265.22 241.18 223.24 213.31 201.17 189.90 188.08
3yr 312.53 292.44 273.30 267.19 242.98 225.01 215.05 202.90 191.58 189.76
4yr 312.53 292.44 274.80 269.30 244.90 226.80 216.83 204.64 193.39 191.58
5yr 312.53 292.44 276.36 271.49 246.89 228.59 218.63 206.47 195.20 193.40
6yr 312.53 292.44 277.77 273.46 248.68 230.29 220.32 208.14 196.93 195.13
7yr 313.40 293.22 279.31 275.34 250.39 231.82 221.92 209.85 198.68 196.89
8yr 314.27 294.05 281.17 277.64 252.49 233.77 223.79 211.60 200.44 198.64
9yr 315.03 294.79 282.71 279.53 254.20 235.31 225.36 213.21 201.94 200.15
10yr 315.98 295.67 285.02 282.42 256.83 237.74 227.77 215.61 204.4202.66
11yr 316.74 296.38 287.19 285.22 259.38 240.30 230.20 218.01 206.81 205.02
12yr 318.99 297.20 289.78 288.05 261.95 242.55 232.59 220.39 209.28 207.49


1yr 49.77 49.77 49.77 49.77 49.77 49.77 49.77 49.77 49.77 49.77
2yr 130.33 121.95 113.38 110.60 100.58 93.09 88.95 83.89 79.19 78.43
3yr 187.52 175.47 163.98 160.31 145.79 135.01 129.03 121.74 114.95 113.86
4yr 197.21 184.53 173.40 169.93 154.53 143.11 136.82 129.13 122.03 120.89
5yr 200.18 187.31 177.01 173.89 158.13 146.41 140.03 132.24 125.03 123.87
6yr 203.77 190.67 181.10 178.30 162.14 150.15 143.65 135.71 128.40 127.23
7yr 207.94 194.55 185.32 182.69 166.14 153.81 147.25 139.24 131.82 130.63
8yr 212.13 198.48 189.79 187.40 170.42 157.79 151.06 142.83 135.29 134.08
9yr 213.27 199.57 191.40 189.24 172.10 159.30 125.57 144.34 136.72 135.50
10yr 214.71 200.91 193.67 191.90 174.52 161.54 154.77 146.51 138.92 137.71
11yr 216.01 202.13 195.87 194.52 176.90 163.89 157.00 148.68 141.04 139.82
12yr 217.87 202.99 197.92 196.74 178.91 165.66 158.86 150.52 142.94 141.71

Captain

B744 = $355.82
B742 = $326.45
B777 = $316.45
DC-10 = $286.06
DC-10F = $314.56
B767/757 = $264.87
A320 = $253.99
B727 = $240.67
B733 = $228.54
B732 = $226.58

First Officer

B744 = $243.03
B742 = $222.96
B777 = $216.13
DC-10 = $195.38
DC-10F = $214.84
B765/757 = $180.91
A320 = $173.48
B727 = $164.38
B733 = $156.09
B732 = $154.75

 

[warbirdfinder]

Retired from Delta in 2004, Delta BK in 2005. 100% loss of pension and nothing from PBGC.

 

[Dan Roman]

Retired from Delta in 2004, Delta BK in 2005. 100% loss of pension and nothing from PBGC.

Was there something that the PBGC looked at a B fund and said you got that so now they refused your PBGC min payment or something along those lines?
Just curious had you could have been shafted out of at least your PBGC payment.

 

[njcapt]

At ATA we took a 18% pay cut, numerous concessions in work rules and in my case I lost my job. 18% might not sound like much, but we were far from the best paid in the industry and had negotiated a one year pay and benefits freeze prior to the declaration. In hindsight, we could have offered up all our pay and benefits and still had the same result given Southwest's dismantling of most of our network.