Passing the plane next to you on final...

[Singlecoil]

It was recently pointed out to me ("Might want to read your FOM") that our company prohibits an aircraft on a visual approach from passing an aircraft doing the visual to a parallel runway. I'm not aware of any FAR prohibiting this when both aircraft are of the same category, i.e, both are large, both are small, etc. Do other companies prohibit this? This is for close parallel runways, like Sea-Tac, SFO, PHX, ONT. What is wrong with a 737 passing another one?

 

[flx757]

I can remember on several occasions at LAX where the local controller would point out traffic inbound to the adjacent (usually 24L...the one normally used for departures) runway, and when we advised him in sight, he would say "You can catch him, just don't pass him".

I know if and when any Simultaneous Offset Instrument Approcach (SOIA) -- Simulataneous Close Parallel procedures are in effect (like maybe SFO someday??), the LDA (offset) aircraft will be positioned behind the ILS PRM aircraft to facilitate visual acquisition. The same applies to this procedure. During the visual segment, the LDA aircraft is required to maintain a position behind the ILS aircraft in order to keep him in sight throughout the visual segment of the approach.

What any of this has to do with anything, who knows?? Just bringing up some food for thought, since Singlecoil brought up the subject.

 

[501261]

Hmm, interesting question, I know I've passed and been passed numerous times going into LAX or PHX. Then again I guess they're not "technically" parallels (24/25, 26/25). I.E. “Cleared to descend via the PDZ4, slow to 180 you’re number 20 for the south complex, traffic 4 moving to 3 o’clock a 747 for the north side.”

Wait a minute, that can't be a rule, going into SNA you're always passing Cessnas doing pattern work on the 19L.

 

[bafanguy]

Singlecoil,


I can't find any "company" prohibition against passing a guy on the closely-spaced finals but my recollection is that it's always been a no-no. You've got to be a lawyer/master librarian to cover all possible sources of info. The only reference to this is in the AIM, para 4-4-13 (a) (2). This is the only reference I found to "passing" during visuals and may not be the only info...it's just all I could find. It says, "...and not pass the other aircraft until it is no longer a factor.". It notes in the subsequent paragraph what constitutes "no longer a factor".

Most other AIM info on visuals seems to address the case of both acft going to the same runway.

The Jeps page for SFO, 19-0, appears to support the no-pass idea but mainly from the standpoint of what ATC will do. But those runways are REALLY close.

All I remember is don't do it. Whats' wrong with doing it ? In practical terms, nothing in some cases...and lot's in others...all depends. Someone will have the scientific answer.

 

[TR4A]

I had a Skywest aircraft pass me at LAX (24R/24L) right after 9/11. TCAS gave us a RA. Our older procedures allowed us to disregard the RA if we had them in sight. NOW the rules are to follow the RA no matter what.

 

[Singlecoil]

But I'm sure your procedures also state that you can select T/A when doing visual approaches to parallel runways to prevent that nuisance R/A. I've heard Southwest get all testy on the freq and climb twice because of this going into SEA. Both places I have worked that had TCAS said you could select T/A to prevent that. The point at which my confusion commences is the fact that my first carrier had no prohibition against passing aircraft (we did it all the time) and my current one prohibits it. I appreciate the replies, though. I should just call the tower and ask.

 

[Vector4fun]

Singlecoil,

I'm not aware of any FAA rule that prohibits it. The ATC rule book only prohibits a heavy/757 overtaking another aircraft, or a large overtaking a small aircraft, when runway centerlines are less than 2500' apart. Two 737s can pass all they want.





FAA 7110.65

para 7-4-4

1. Parallel runways separated by less than 2,500 feet. Unless standard separation is provided by ATC, an aircraft must report sighting a preceding aircraft making an approach (instrument or visual) to the adjacent parallel runway. When an aircraft reports another aircraft in sight on the adjacent final approach course and visual separation is applied, controllers must advise the succeeding aircraft to maintain visual separation. However, do not permit a heavy/B757 aircraft to overtake another aircraft. Do not permit a large aircraft to overtake a small aircraft.
​

 

[bafanguy]

Vector4fun,


Good to hear from an ATC guy on this. Is it possible that this pass/no pass matter might vary from one airport to another ? In SFO, the Jepps page re visuals seems to say passing is a no-no. But the runways there are very close together. Maybe at other airports with more separation between parallel centerlines it's not so critical and therefore is OK ( in an official FAA kinda way ) ? If so, how would one know the "official" policy for a particular airport...is it published somewhere that flightcrews would have normal access ?

 

[EagleRJ]

The controllers probably assume you can't maintain visual contact if you pass the other aircraft. That's OK- most airports with parallels that are within 2500' of eachother don't have the room for passing.

LAX gives that clearance all the time. I've been landing on 24R, following a 744 1/4 mile ahead of me on the inboard. I wouldn't feel comfortable pulling alongside him, since one pilot would have to watch him and not the runway.

 

[bafanguy]

EagleRJ,


I agree. There are probably a lot of wrinkles to this issue. I just wondered what the "official" FAA policy is on this. As far as I knew, we weren't supposed to do it but couldn't point to chapter & verse in any official publication. The AIM seems to "imply" one shouldn't, but it's not really clear there either.