Passengers retaliation against regionals

[shon7]

With all this talk of how regional jets are fuelleing grown and how airlines can now have more frequent flights -- the two issues that are common and ironically ignored for the most part by airline management are:

1) Passengers DO NOT prefer those tiny regional jets

2) Regionals DO put a strain on the countrys Air Traffic system and airports

While the argument that regionals are needed to connect smaller cities is completely valid and justified -- having a regional jet fly ORD - JFK or IAD - BOS is not!! This, I believe, is also one of the reasons why Southwest and JBlu are doing better.

How long before the airlines actually start to realize that passengers DO NOT like those tiny jets. Or am I completely wrong and should expect to be flying an EMB/ Canadair to Europe within the next 10 years.

 

[canyonblue]

having a regional jet fly ORD - JFK or IAD - BOS is not!! This, I believe, is also one of the reasons why Southwest and JBlu are doing better.

I do agree. We can't beat DAL, AA, UAL etc. in First Class, but we can beat them in coach, especially on an RJ.

 

[FLB717]

That is one of two reasons we have released Air Wis. They do/did offer a good product for what we needed. But with passenger growth and a large demand for Biss Class they are going on thier way. The other reason, I believe is that UAL wants then for IAD to go against Indy Air. What ever reason one or both soon mini me will be mini them. However the Air Wis are a great group, they will be missed, see ya on the JS.

 

[rreese707]

1) Passengers DO NOT prefer those tiny regional jets

How long before the airlines actually start to realize that passengers DO NOT like those tiny jets. Or am I completely wrong and should expect to be flying an EMB/ Canadair to Europe within the next 10 years. [/B]

Sitting in the back of an RJ does suck, but its the passengers own fault. If they would start paying more for a ticket then the airlines could afford to use a larger aircraft.

 

[General Lee]

This is what I have been saying as of late, and I always get slammed by the Comair people. I am not against RJ pilots----I just think that we are now dealing with lower fares and more LCCs. The only way for us to compete is to have larger planes with more seats. Believe it or not (most do not), Song is a good idea on certain routes because it allows lower fares and 199 seats---covering most of the costs and supposedly creating a profit for Song last quarter.....I think more and more of our mainline 757s will convert to Song (Grinstein said 17 more)---and we will go head to head with the other LCCs. People want live TV (or Direct TV in our Case)----and they want weird food selections (that is a money maker on Song too), and on some routes they want very low fares. We can't ignore that market if it is growing. But, there are probably a lot of routes that RJs are good for and probably won't be competing against many LCCs---like Peoria and Fayettville, AR.......

Bye Bye--General Lee

PS--RREESE, that is the reason RJs are not as successful against the LCCs---the lower fares. For that reason, we need more seats on larger planes to squeeze out a profit. Smaller planes with less seats and lower fares doesn't make sense---and that is why Southwest and Airtran do not or will not have RJs----and Jetblue is going to a 100 seater as their smallest plane.

 

[SWA GUY]

Passengers hate RJ's now????? I remember when they hated turboprops...and that wasn't very long ago!

Pax will not be happy until they can fly from ATL to GPT on a triple 7, then after 6 months of that they'll start complaining that the plane is too big.

Some folks are just destined to complain I guess.

Be good....

 

[B190Captain]

I once traveled on Spirit and overheard a dumb@ss passenger say,"This airplane is small."

They will never be satisfied.

 

[roadrunner]

None of these people have the right to b!tch about anything..bad food, long check in lines, time on hold buying a ticket, or riding in an RJ. The have spoken loudly through their tight little wallets. We're just giving them what they are willing to pay for.

 

[StaySeated]

"Or am I completely wrong and should expect to be flying an EMB/ Canadair to Europe within the next 10 years."

Yup, I think that the RJDC has this in their lawsuit.

 

[RightBettor]

B190Captain:

Got a good one for ya... years ago I was jumpseating on Delta from LAX to ATL. The back was full, so I was up front (pre 9/11 before some of youse guys jump in with some dumba$$ comments)... anyway, the FAs were discussing a lady who was sitting in First Class bitching about how Delta put her on this small airplane and she cannot believe DAL would put her on such a small plane between LAX and ATL. The airplane was a f*cking B767-300!!!! WTFO? ( The reaction from the pilots was basically, "You've got to be kidding me!" Only thing bigger would've been the L-1011.)

I guess Barbie in first class wouldn't be happy with a private CL-65 either because, of course, that'd be too small. Typical self-important, pretentious, arrogant Californian!! God I am glad to be out of that state!

Oh and BTW, "Route him into Lake Michigan! At least it'll avoid killing innocent people!"

 

[boxjockey]

I just deadheaded from EWR to CLE on a 737-300 in coach, and the seat wasn't any more comfortable than the seats in the E145. The RJ's are here to stay. Just like GL says, they will still fill hubs from small cities, and eventually will offer direct service between medium sized markets. More large aircraft will return, no doubt, but the numbers don't lie. RJ's make money, even when they're operating half full.

box

 

[shon7]

"Sitting in the back of an RJ does suck, but its the passengers own fault. If they would start paying more for a ticket then the airlines could afford to use a larger aircraft."

The way things are - most passengers don't have a choice regarding the aircraft. Try this -- you book online -- a simple trip like ORD - BWI or ORD - DCA say on UAL and they give you multiple options with connections in CLT or some other place on an RJ. Then try the same on Southwest / ATA. Not only is UAL more "complicated" in terms of the routing -- the prices are 3-4 times!! Also, keep in mind that their product is not that much different than any other carrier (if at all).

Thus, passengers -- who are NOT only looking for price but also simplicity -- flock to ATA and Southwest and the likes. I know I have done it.

Secondly, the airlines haven't always done it right with regards to yeild management and overbooking. I still remember the days travelling when if you spoke with 4 guys on the plane all of them had paid different prices for their ticket. Again, some of the newer carriers have addressed these issues -- while the "legacy carriers" yet have to embrace this.

 

[rreese707]

Last time i checked you could see what type of aircraft you would be flying on. But it does not really matter.

Shon7 - What you should do is personally get a hold of everyone who has ever flown or will fly in the future. Make them all promise to never fly on an RJ again. Then next time they want to fly on a route that is normally flown by an RJ they could buy 2 tickets or pay twice a much for a ticket. I think they should buy 2 tickets so it will show demand for a larger aircraft.

Maybe if you could get the passenger to buy two tickets and pay twice as much - every aircraft could be configured for First Class & passengers would start getting food again.

Flying on an RJ does suck - But you get what the demand is for.

 

[roadrunner]

I'd honestly have to say that I'd rather fly on a CRJ than a 737 of flts under 3 hrs. No fighting for overhead bin space, no middle seat between 2 fat@sses, and the FA's are much friendlier than on mainline. Admittedly though, if I were over 6' my opinion might change. I did find the seat on the ERJ a bit painful, definately prefer riding on the Canadair.

 

[Midnight Mike]

Last time i checked you could see what type of aircraft you would be flying on.

Not always, I booked travel on what I thought was Continental from John Wayne Airport to Norfolk Virginia, I booked online and when I showed up at the airport, surprise, it was actually Northwest and the equipment ended up being a RJ out of Minny & out of Norfolk the flight was on Pinnacle Airways flying one of those Regional Jets.

So there are surprises, of course the other item is that there are a number of people that just do not know their aircraft.

 

[tlax25]

What is up with some of you bashing the passangers? Kind of strange...Most people do not have any clue about aircraft...maybe I should call some of you dumba@@e@ for not knowing about what I do for a living, and not speaking about with intelligence.

Anyway, as a paying passanger flying out of Chicago, I will gladly pay more for a seat on a mainline aircraft on any flight over 1 1/2 hours. Yes, I am big - 6'4 and about 220lbs. The only way to be even a little comfortable on an RJ is to sit in the "A" seat. Other than that, forget about it.

 

[surplus1]

I have a few dumb questions

1. What is the seat pitch on a CRJ, EMB145?

2. What is the seat width on the same aircraft?

3. What is the seat pitch in the back (coach) of a DC-9 (MD80) and a 737 at AirTran, SWA, Delta?

4. What is the seat width, same aircraft, same airlines.?

5. What is the seat pitch and seat width, in economy, on a Delta 757 (not Song), A USAir 757.

6. Throw in the numbers for the back of a 767 if you like.

I'm trying to find out the real differences, not the opinions of those with different personal agendas.

 

[General Lee]

Surplus1,

The main people we are trying to attract are the business passengers that usually pay higher fares because their travel is often spur of the moment or time critical. They pay more. They also are growing tired of the lack of upgrades available on RJs, and the lack of space to be productive. RJs don't do it---but they are better than nothing and can provide direct service to certain cities that have longer alternatives. (Like AA eagles CR7 service to XNA--Fayettville, AR--near Wallmart's HDQ--service from LGA and LAX nonstop) Those are some good examples. But there are many more bad examples and one only has to reread the Wall Street Journals Weekend edition article concerning RJs and businessmen (out three or four months ago I believe). The average customer doens't care---but they pay average low fares. And those low fares also hurt us when flying RJs against LCC mainline sized aircraft on the same route....

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[RightBettor]

SWA Dude...

I am not from TX... but just recently escaped California to Arizona. Now whose making assumptions here?

The Lake Michigan comment was a joke referring to the quotes that B190Capt has in his signature. If you'll pay attention to his signature, then you'll see it is an exchange between the characters McCroskey and Capt Rex Kramer from the movie Airplane! The last comment inadvertently made over the radio to Ted Striker was something along the lines of, "There's no way he can land this plane. Route him into Lake Micigan, at least it'll avoid killing innocent people."

I suggest you rent the movie.

Finally, I would put money on the fact that lady was from CA... most likely Orange Co. or the Beverly Hills area. You had to be there. Dude!

 

[Snakum]

I don't quite understand the pax comments about RJs. I personally would prefer an RJ over AA/DA/NW/US coach any day. I don't have to worry about squeezing in between two lard-@ssed couch potatoes and there's a 66% chance I'll get an isle seat. I don't know what the pitch is nowadays on mainline coach ... but at 6'1" and 195, I find little difference.

I'll take an ERJ/CRJ any time!

Minh