P-3 Engineers

[p3hawk]

My time as a FE

Hey Barnie, P3tweet,and all the rest of my fellow crew members on the Orion.
Great to hear from Ya'll. I was an FE through out the 80's. I went thru VP-30 as a retread after a year as a second mech. The pilot group was some of the best the navy had to offer and i had a blast training them on elect. and prop syst. Like wise I personally atribute their expertise in the way that I manage my cockpit. I would not be the capt. that I am if it werent for them.

The reserve's was the next best thing the navy could offer. Barnie, I have a lot of contact's PM me if you want and I'll do my best for ya.

Happy Trails, Ken
AD1 USNR-R (retired)

 

[p3hawk]

By the way

Hey P3teek, you mentioned the VP-9 ditching a few threads back? One of them well the surviving one, He was my division chief. He also attended my wedding. great guy. He's RTB.

Live to fly, fly to live.

 

[P3 Tweek]

P3 encounter group

Darn it's good to see so many shipmates coming out of the woodwork here at Flightinfo.com.

As an AX2 IFT and being a Commercial AMEL/I pilot while I did my Navy duties waaaay back then, I would routinely sit on the forward radar console and maintain a quiet `watch' on the PPC and 2P - always looking over their shoulders. They all did a VERY good job in some very tough CONDX and LOOOOOOONG days. Unless the crew needed me back in `the tube' to fix something or during `set condition 5', I would get a sore a$$ sitting there on that radar hard deck in the cockpit.

Now the FE's had a job that I didn't have a real good grasp on. An `atta-boy' to the FE's I knew. Always really admired them.

P3C IFT Tweek


PS. p3hawk...Chief RTB? I'm not sure I know who your referring to.

 

[p3hawk]

Chief RTB

I was Inferring that he had retired from the navy, slang term for return-to-base.
or in his case his home of record.

 

[P3 Tweek]

RTB Chief

Whew! Thanks `p3hawk'. I was getting prepared to review http://www.vpnavy.com to see if I knew any recently deceased chiefs. Sadly, there have been a few lately.

AX2 `P3 Tweek' IFT

 

[Barnie]

after reading these...

So guys, now that we know there are some out there that (and figure they will do it all by themselves), I can only go back to those RUMORS coming out of the commercial airline industry of the 'two seat' flight station of times that someone inadvertantly dumped too much gas waaaaay out over the pond and then flying on fumes to get to land. Of the time inflight when someone inadvertantly bagged the wrong engine during during an engine fire (two engine aircraft). Doing 220 kts at 300 feet is tricky enough and having another set of eyes up front is only wise thinking. It could go on and on but why? I grew up in the three seat cockpit and will probably go out that way. I don't harbor any bad thoughts to those out there that want to have all of the latest balls and whistles, it's just not for me.
Keep em in the air and keep em safe guys. Barnie

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

Of the time inflight when someone inadvertantly bagged the wrong engine during during an engine fire (two engine aircraft).

Of course, no engineer has ever bagged the wrong engine in haste...

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of the F/E's. But everyone is human. When it comes right down to it, 3 heads are better in a cockpit than two, but the times, they are a changin'.

I'm just wondering how the F/E's are handling the news that they will all be AW's now!

 

[Barnie]

aw's?????

Since I'm retired now, I really couldn't tell you what they think but most FE's I know would think about cross-decking to Hercs. Couldn't imagine any of them WANTING to get gelded just so they can ride in the back of the bus. Barnie

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

Barnie, haven't you heard the news? They'll be AW's no matter what plane they are on. All aircrew are going to be lumped into one rate...AW. Dumb move, but nobody asked me.

 

[1080+/-2]

A nickel?? I'd be Donald Trump rich for every penny I heard the following:

"Why do we have to take that much gas, sir??"

or

"Don't touch MY power levers" (that was genuine entertainment when they would be reminded of what the block "Pilot in Command" meant on the A-sheet and how it was NOT their signature below it)

While discussing the P-3 being replaced by the 737, FE's would ask, "How are you guys going to fly without us?" My answer--"very easily"

Egomania in any of the 3 seats was ridiculous. Yes it's ultimately the AC's decision, but in the P-3 world, knowledge is power, and I knew very few pilots who had enough systems knowledge to over-ride a GOOD FE's recommendation and not answer to the old man. It boiled down to the idea that an OFFICER wasn't going to let some ENLISTED scum critique his performance. It's a team effort, but even a PIC isn't going to put me into the side of a glacier or into the drink no matter how much authoritai he may or may not have. I had a good working relationship with 99% of the pilots I flew with, but I didn't pull punches with the 1%, and they are the ones who get the bruised vaginal lips when the FE makes a smart-alecky comment.

Enjoy your power trip while it lasts! And thanks to the cool pilots who returned the respect that I gave to them.

 

[bertengineer]

Marine Corps KC-130 Engineer

One thing I loved about my job when people asked what a FE did. I said " It is kind of like a stage-coach driver. I have to direct the two asses in front of me!" Hey for you navy guys, I Flight Instructed with a guy named bob sutton...former P-3 Engineer, now he can spell pilot and teach students in P'cola FL.

For the military pilots...don't get offended by my statements. I did my 20, now it is your turn.

Semper FI

bertengineer

 

[Barnie]

A fellow Engineer just sent this to me and I had to post it. Couldn't have said it ANY better myself. Most of the pilots I flew with were Reservists and did double duty in the commercial airlines world so they were pretty sharp but still would ask my input on technical issues. Barnie

This is from 1080+/- 2. He wrote:
Egomania in any of the 3 seats was ridiculous. Yes it's ultimately the
AC's decision, but in the P-3 world, knowledge is power, and I knew
very few pilots who had enough systems knowledge to over-ride a GOOD FE's
recommendation and not answer to the old man. It boiled down to the
idea that an OFFICER wasn't going to let some ENLISTED scum critique his
performance. It's a team effort, but even a PIC isn't going to put me
into the side of a glacier or into the drink no matter how much
authoritai he may or may not have. I had a good working relationship with 99% of
the pilots I flew with, but I didn't pull punches with the 1%, and they
are the ones who get the bruised vaginal lips when the FE makes a
smart-alecky comment.

Enjoy your power trip while it lasts! And thanks to the cool pilots
who returned the respect that I gave to them.

 

[thebluto]

Relax, folks.

IMHO, pilots don't get the in-depth systems knowledge because there isn't enough time during the day to stay in the books. Pilots get to see a lot more khaki-wearing time and have so many other non-flying tasks. The disassociated sea tours, DH meetings, board preparation, duties (I especially loved the fact that I had to inspect the barracks trash dumpsters and recycling bins as part of SDO). The list goes on.

Plus, FEs get to fly their whole careers. How many pilots do you know that have stayed in the Navy with over 5000 hours? I think I met 1. I met quite a few FEs who were somewhere near the 10K point.

But, everyone has some cross to bear. I knew a number of highly talented FEs who got $crewed by the Navy when it came to Chief's boards, etc. And, I wasn't too impressed with the crew's living conditions in places like the Mannai Plaza. Everyone has a certain amount of $uck to deal with, but we're all playing on the same team. Can't we all just have a group hug?

By the way, I hear that Customs is really hurting for FEs. Some of the guys are deploying up to 21 days a month. There is a hiring freeze on right now. But, when that goes away, I'm sure the FE floodgates will open.

 

[SMOE]

Another former (USAF) FE here. Many of the comments/observations here went/go on in the AF as well. It was a great ride for 20+ years as long as the egos were checked at the crew door (in both crew positions).

Barnie, I have several friends who are PFEs in the civilian world. It would appear the key to getting hired is blind luck. I was in your boat. Plenty of opportunities while I was active duty that all dried up when I retired. So.... I chose the pilot option. Here's what I know of for PFE opportunities:

Southern Air
Evergreen
Kalitta
Lynden Air Cargo
Gemini
Polar
Omni
JAL
All Nippon
Lufthansa Cargo
Planet Airways
Kittyhawk (I think)
Capital Cargo

If your interested in working overseas, you may want to try PARC Aviation or IASCO. They are crew leasing outfits that accept apps from PFEs.

Good luck...

 

[1080+/-2]

Sup...

I think there is a good working relationship between the pilots and fes. I like pilots, but I don't like superior attitudes. I definitely don't miss the caste system that the military has in place.

Whatever, we're all aviation professionals with a role to play. If we play nice and all get along, it makes it a lot more fun.

C-ya

 

[P3 Tweek]

Barnie

Barnie, you're my favorite kind of P-3 FE. Flew with several FE's just like you. We would have made a GREAT P-3 crew. Thumbs up also for `1080+/- 2'.

Tweek - ex AX2 P-3 IFT

 

[E-handle]

Too much fuel?

The only time I ever had a problem with putting on a little more gas was when it was bounce hop on a Friday back at home base or any bounce hop at Cubi Pt!

 

[P3 Tweek]

Avitar

E-Handle...you need an avitar. A nice P-3 doing aerobatics around hangar one at NUQ would be nice! I'll give you a call this weekend.

Semper Fi,
P3 Tweek (AX2 tweet)

PS. Wasn't max continuous TIT on the T-56-14 1077?

 

[E-handle]

Max continuous

Tweek, max continuous on the -14 was 1049 degrees C. Only got to use this setting once for about half an hour. I could tell you where, but then I would have to kill you!