OPEC accuses U.S. on oil prices

[Poahi]

This is just another ignorant "America is the best" statement that does not work anymore. We might have been #1 at many things, but not anymore!!! Not even close!!!
...

How many medical miracles have come out of France, Italy and Malta?

If you had a serious disease or were in an accident in any of these countries, where would you want to go for care?

 

[sat74]

Well, I did have an accident in Italy. Not really the place I wanted to have one, but broke my arm in the process. Like I said, I went to the hospital (a very modern facility I might add) and was taken care of immediately, and with no questions asked! And it cost me nothing!

 

[Wiggums]

How many medical miracles have come out of France, Italy and Malta?

Medical research encompasses people and nations all over the world. The father of modern medicine, the guy that developed the germ theory, and the inventor of many life saving vaccines just happens to be a French guy called Pasteur. Or how about Carlos Urbani, who was the first guy to identify SARS. His warning to the WHO saved millions also, and he died from the disease shortly after it's discovery trying to save people from it. Just so happens he was Italian.

 

[Wiggums]

And they were only pointing out the flaws in THEIR OWN system instead of letting someone sing about how wonderful it was.

The interesting thing is that while the English and Canadians whine about their systems, they regard the American system as worse and would not trade theirs for it. They want health-care like the Swiss or Norwegians have.

 

[Poahi]

... The father of modern medicine,...a French guy called Pasteur.

True, 200 years ago. And yes Carlos Urbani identified SARS - both significant contributions. But look at the big picture. Do you disagree that most of the advancements in medical technology come from the USA?

For the record, ALPA is pretty clear about this. If you end up with a serious disease in a foreign country, your best plan is to get out.

 

[Wiggums]

For the record, ALPA is pretty clear about this. If you end up with a serious disease in a foreign country, your best plan is to get out.

Yeah, all kinds of crazy stuff could happen when getting treated in a third world banana republic country, look at this case where 40,000 patients were exposed to Hep C. Whoops, it happened in Nevada.

ALPA sucks, I'm not taking advice from them. 99% of the medical treatments out there you can get in any western country. The other 1% your insurance won't cover, so you are SOL anyways.

 

[Wiggums]

This ranking means nothing without the data and criteria used to produce these ranks.

You have the internet, go to the WHO and read the methodology. What would you like to measure by, access to care, overall cost, infant mortality, life expectancy, obesity? Too bad America rates poorly in ALL those categories.

 

[svcta]

The interesting thing is that while the English and Canadians whine about their systems, they regard the American system as worse and would not trade theirs for it. They want health-care like the Swiss or Norwegians have.

Then why is consumer funded(private) medical care becoming so popular in Britain?

And the one thing that hasn't been discussed in this whole tangent on medical care and governments and America is freedom. What happened to that principal? The freedom to succeed and the freedom to fail. I want to make my own choice for health care. What's wrong with that?

 

[SkiFishFly]

Then why is consumer funded(private) medical care becoming so popular in Britain?

And the one thing that hasn't been discussed in this whole tangent on medical care and governments and America is freedom. What happened to that principal? The freedom to succeed and the freedom to fail. I want to make my own choice for health care. What's wrong with that?

Exactly.
I have dealt firsthand with a Gov administrator deciding when and where a family member will see a specialist while I was using the military medical system. They were going to leave my wife to die despite what the ER doc and her physician had told them.
I want no part of a system where some bureaucrat decides who gets to see the doc and when.
I get to choose and yes good healthcare costs money. It is usually money well spent.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I want no part of a system where some bureaucrat decides who gets to see the doc and when.
I get to choose and yes good healthcare costs money. It is usually money well spent.

EXACTLY!

Here in the US, in EVERY health plan my wife and I have been on (at least 8), our choices of doctors and facilities have been VERY limited.

Right now, in the whole NE WI region, we are limited to exactly ONE dental office and ONE orthodontic office that we can use. We can't use 60+% of the doctor's offices in NE WI.

I like the part of the Canadian system where you can walk into ANY facility in the country, and see whatever doctor that is available. You have a medical card, and it's accepted everywhere. Easy.

We have had, like most Americans, MASSIVE problems with EVERY insurance company that has provided "services" to us. Terrible!

And then the Insurance industry wonders why 80% of Americans want a drastic overhaul of the Health Care industry!

cliff
GRB

 

[SkiFishFly]

Hi!



EXACTLY!

Here in the US, in EVERY health plan my wife and I have been on (at least 8), our choices of doctors and facilities have been VERY limited.

Right now, in the whole NE WI region, we are limited to exactly ONE dental office and ONE orthodontic office that we can use. We can't use 60+% of the doctor's offices in NE WI.

I like the part of the Canadian system where you can walk into ANY facility in the country, and see whatever doctor that is available. You have a medical card, and it's accepted everywhere. Easy.

We have had, like most Americans, MASSIVE problems with EVERY insurance company that has provided "services" to us. Terrible!

And then the Insurance industry wonders why 80% of Americans want a drastic overhaul of the Health Care industry!

cliff
GRB

The problem you are describing is with your (insurance) company that provides payment for your health care. Not the health care system.
You can choose whatever dentist, orthodontist or doctor you want - you will just have to pay for it. It is up to you to decide whether the benefit is worth the cost. Freedom of choice is great!

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

The problem you are describing is with your (insurance) company that provides payment for your health care. Not the health care system.

And it was also the problem with the last health insurance company my company used, and it's the problem with my wife's insurance, and it's the problem with my wife's former company's insurance company they last used, and the one before that, and the one before that, and the one before that, and the one before that, and the one before that.

So it's NOT the system it's just EVERY INSURANCE COMPANY we have every used (except one!).

So 90% of the insurance companies deliver a crap product, but it's not the system?

The answer is to not have health care insurance, and just pay cash????

So, the US has the BEST health care system in the world, because we can drop our insurance and pay out of pocket?

This means our health care system would improve drastically, if the Federal Government made all health insurance companies cease operating, and required everyone to pay cash???

RIGHT!

cliff
GRB

 

[svcta]

Well, I'll counter you experience with mine. I pay what we would probably all consider a very reasonable insurance cost every month and I have pretty darn good coverage and flexibility.

I don't share your experience now, nor have I ever. And how can you claim that "most Americans" have the same problem that you do?

And again, what about freedom? And I'm still waiting for that example of what the government has done better than the private sector.

 

[Poahi]

And it was also the problem with the last health insurance company ....

Let me help further refine this point. The problem is with your employer. They are free to change plans and PBA's. Since many airlines are self insured, they create the mess.

Ultimately, you are responsible for your own healthcare and you basically have to manage it yourself.

If you don't have money, you will get sicker until you need very expensive care. Then, the people who can't afford their own care have to pay for yours.

 

[Wiggums]

Then why is consumer funded(private) medical care becoming so popular in Britain?

Because Britian sucks. Same reason there are no British car manufactures left. There are plenty of better systems to model ours after.

And the one thing that hasn't been discussed in this whole tangent on medical care and governments and America is freedom. What happened to that principal? The freedom to succeed and the freedom to fail. I want to make my own choice for health care. What's wrong with that?

You are uninformed. You should read one of Obama's books or look at his website. The general idea is to reduce waste and lower costs so that regular people can afford to purchase there own insurance. Try getting a quote for a family of four for a low deductible policy including maternity care. Employers spend and average of $12,100 for that type of coverage, maybe as an individual you can get that down to 500-600 a month for a mediocre plan. Even at that level that's over 10% of the median household income of 48k. Then there is your out of pocket expenses and god help you if you have a pre-existing condition.

No plan is suggesting that they would take away your choice of private insurance, not even Clinton's plan.

The future is looking good, both liberals that likely to get the nominations (McCain or Obama) both have basically the same plan. Reduce waste and make insurance more accessible.