Older airplanes and POH's

[groundpointsix]

I had a prospective student approach me about flying in his 1956 C182 with him. While we're preflighting the aircraft I notice that there's no POH or W&B to be seen. When I ask him about this he says that they're all back at his house and he hops in his truck to go back to retrieve them; he returns with a folder full of various documents, logbooks etc. We managed to find the weight and balance, but no POH-- only an "owners manual." Now, I know that before a certain date there was no standardization in POH's like today, but this book had no identifying marks like a serial number or registration, so I'm hesitant to believe that this is actually a legal POH. He claims this is all that came with the airplane when he bought it a year ago and that his other 1956 C182 has the exact same documentation and that he and his operation (he owns a drop zone) have been ramp checked before and the feds have never said anything.

Anyone have any experience with these older airplanes? Is he in fact legal with this document? If not, where can he get a legal POH for a 50 year old airplane?

 

[EMBATP]

i had a similiar situation with an old (50's) 182. i dont think he even had the manual. we did order one from cessna, but i think he did have the w&b stuff..

 

[pilotman2105]

If the aircraft was manufactured prior to March 1, 1979, the only thing that is required are applicable placards and operating limitations.

14CFR-

Sec. 91.9 Civil aircraft flight manual, marking, and placard requirements.

(a) Except as provided in paragraph (d) of this section, no person
may operate a civil aircraft without complying with the operating
limitations specified in the approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight
Manual, markings, and placards, or as otherwise prescribed by the
certificating authority of the country of registry.
(b) No person may operate a U.S.-registered civil aircraft--
(1) For which an Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual is required by
Sec. 21.5 of this chapter unless there is available in the aircraft a
current, approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual or the manual
provided for in Sec. 121.141(b); and
(2) For which an Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual is not
required by Sec. 21.5 of this chapter, unless there is available in the
aircraft a current approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual,
approved manual material, markings, and placards, or any combination
thereof.

Sec. 21.5 Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual.

(a) With each airplane or rotorcraft that was not type certificated
with an Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual and that has had no flight
time prior to March 1, 1979, the holder of a Type Certificate (including
a Supplemental Type Certificate) or the licensee of a Type Certificate
shall make available to the owner at the time of delivery of the
aircraft a current approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual.


So to water it down, if required by 21.5, the airplane must have a Flight Manual on board. If it isn't required per 21.5, you must have "approved manual material, markings, and placards, or any combination thereof," which the book that you student is providing should cover.

 

[groundpointsix]

Thanks, I figured that was the case, but I wanted to make sure everything was legit before I got in the airplane.

 

[DGdaPilot]

Is there any place where you can get a POH for a particular airplane, say a 1969 Piper Cherokee 160?? The book that came with the airplane is faaaaar from POH standards and its charts and everything suck.
Thanks

 

[DenverDude2002]

Is there any place where you can get a POH for a particular airplane, say a 1969 Piper Cherokee 160?? The book that came with the airplane is faaaaar from POH standards and its charts and everything suck.
Thanks

Try www.esscoaircraft.com I ordered POHs for the Archer 2 and Warrior 2 i fly.....

 

[pilotman2105]

Is there any place where you can get a POH for a particular airplane, say a 1969 Piper Cherokee 160?? The book that came with the airplane is faaaaar from POH standards and its charts and everything suck.
Thanks

It doesn't have to be up to POH standards. Since the airplane was made prior to March 1, 1979, a POH isn't required. The only thing required is a set of operating limitations.

With that said, a book which has more information that what you have in the airplane may be available from either the manufacturer. Also, several FBOs (especially ones that rent Cherokees) may sell Information Manuals, which may have more information than what you have.

 

[cougar6903]

It doesn't have to be up to POH standards. Since the airplane was made prior to March 1, 1979, a POH isn't required. The only thing required is a set of operating limitations.

With that said, a book which has more information that what you have in the airplane may be available from either the manufacturer. Also, several FBOs (especially ones that rent Cherokees) may sell Information Manuals, which may have more information than what you have.

But this brings up the question, where do you get a list of the appropriate placards and operating limitations? I was taught that this list is logated in he POH.

 

[pilotman2105]

But this brings up the question, where do you get a list of the appropriate placards and operating limitations? I was taught that this list is logated in he POH.

I'm assuming that information was determined by the FAA when the aircraft underwent certification. However, I am not quite sure.

If you're questioning what placards and operating limitations are required to be in the aircraft, I would say that the place to start is with a call to the manufacturer.

 

[transpac]

The type certificate data sheet contains the list of placards and markings required on a particular type of aircraft. Do a search for TCDS on the FAA website.