OK...stupid question probably...

[CE402]

....but why don't formation aerobatic teams (Blue Angels, Thunderbirds, etc) have issues with wake turbulence (each others that is)?

 

[migio]

Takeoff Eh! You Hoser!

 

[migio]

....but why don't formation aerobatic teams (Blue Angels, Thunderbirds, etc) have issues with wake turbulence (each others that is)?

Good question eh? I couldnt tell ya either.Sorry you fleshyheaded mutant!

 

[CE402]

Radiation has made me an enemy of civilization eh!

 

[JAFI]

....but why don't formation aerobatic teams (Blue Angels, Thunderbirds, etc) have issues with wake turbulence (each others that is)?

They all weigh the same?

 

[SkyBoy1981]

They all weigh the same?

LOL. Surely you're joking.

 

[OpenClimb]

I've flown a little formation in sport airplanes and can tell you that wake turbulence can be a very real problem. Somebody far more experienced than me can jump in here and correct me, but the training I've received suggests various staggared formations to minimize flying in somebody's wake. This being said, I've blundered into the turbulent air more than once... It can be quite a ride, but I was always in an aerobatic airplane (with great control authority) so it's not like I was thrown upside down or anything.

It's kind of a neat learning experience, actually. You can feel the other guy's wake before you're really getting thrown around. It's kind of like fishing when you can sense a strike, but the fish hasn't completely swallowed the bait.

As for the "same weight" hypothesis... Not really true. Some of the worst wake turbulence I've experienced was from a Bae-146 when I was flying an Airbus 3 miles in trail on an approach. I don't know what a 146 weighs, but I'm pretty sure it's significantly less than an Airbus.

Great question. I'd love to hear a real live fighter pilot put his 2 cents in.

 

[mudkow60]

In the case of the Blue's, the tight flightsuits are more aerodynamic, and produce less drag...

Not sure for the other folks.

 

[time builder]

Wake turbulence is greatest at high lift and low speed. I'd imagine the blue angels' speed reduces the wake impact.

 

[C425Driver]

Each aircraft flies below the aircraft in front of it, staying below the wake.

 

[unreal]

Wouldn't this really be an issue of jet wash? I would think that hot jet exhaust blowing at high speed out the back would create more of an issue than wingtip vortices while in close formation.

 

[mcjohn]

Yeah, just like Goose learned the hard way. R.I.P. Goose. :bawling:

 

[macfly]

Yeah, just like Goose learned the hard way. R.I.P. Goose. :bawling:

hehhe...

It's a weight issue for sure, some get good cooking, some dont.

 

[VNugget]

Wouldn't this really be an issue of jet wash? I would think that hot jet exhaust blowing at high speed out the back would create more of an issue than wingtip vortices while in close formation.

In the past, the slot guy would never have the tail of his plane washed, so over time it would blacken from all the accumulated soot from lead's exhaust. It was a point of pride, kind of like how martial artists never wash their belt.

 

[Bjammin]

It's not a problem because the wigman are stepped below the lead and the slot is also under all the wash and turb. I have flown both positions in a T-45A and it's extreamly smooth. As the above post states the tails will somwtimes get some wash. It's usually not enough to srcew up you're position.

The problem comes when flying through your own jetwash and wingtip vorticies during a loop or tight circle with no wind. You can see them hit this every once in a while. Usually it's just a thump.

 

[frog_flyer]

Wake turbulence is greatest at high lift and low speed. I'd imagine the blue angels' speed reduces the wake impact.

question on ppl written

wake turblence is worst when a plane is heavy, slow, and clean.

the clean part surprised me!

 

[mcjohn]

Clean and slow equals a higher angle of attack which disturbes the air flowing over the wings the most. I have a HUGE fear of hitting bad wake turbulence on short final and getting rolled into the ground. In reality, I should be more concerned about hitting it on takeoff behind a large heavy aircraft because I assume they take off clean but land with flaps.

 

[wmuflyguy]

Clean and slow equals a higher angle of attack which disturbes the air flowing over the wings the most. I have a HUGE fear of hitting bad wake turbulence on short final and getting rolled into the ground. In reality, I should be more concerned about hitting it on takeoff behind a large heavy aircraft because I assume they take off clean but land with flaps.

Almost all (there are a couple exceptions) large aircraft take-off with partial flaps.

 

[FL420]

The wingmen in formation(except line abreast formations) usually fly with "stepdown" meaning they are below the wingtip vortices and jet wash from the engines. If flying loose enough to not have wing overlap, airflow off the lead aircraft is not a factor.

When getting close enough to have wing overlap and high enough to get into the airflow off the leaders wingtip, wake turbulence of course becomes a factor. As you ease into the vortex it begins to push your wingtip down which requires a little opposite stick force to counteract. It is easily anticipated and corrected for with practice.

Where people get into trouble is when they try to get more wing overlap by flying tighter and tighter. There is a point where the downforce on the wingman's wing suddenly reverses and the wing feels like it is being sucked up into the leader's wing. It can be very disconcerting if unanticipated or approached too rapidly and can lead to "trading paint" and much worse. There is no need to fly that close for appearances sake.

When penetrating bad weather at night it may be necessary to fly with your canopy just a few feet from the leader's wingtip with a lot of wing overlap. That is best done with enough stepdown to stay out of the airflow from the leader's wing.

There is a whole lot more to formation flying than this, so.........

Don't try this at home!!

 

[Bjammin]

When wing tip vortexes really become a problem is when air-air refueling off a wing station on a large tanker like the KC-135 (707) or VC-10 (large Brit tanker/transport). You need almost full aileron trim AWAY from the tanker to just stay in the basket. It's very stable and easily antisipated, strange none the less.