NWA FA's whats happening ???

[aussiefly]

Just wondering whats going on with the NWA FA rolling stopages planned from 15th august on. Was an agreement reached with the company of will the FA's be implementing CHAOS as its called.

Sorry if i've missed the thread etc.

cheers
aussie

 

[XJTAv8r]

Just wondering whats going on with the NWA FA rolling stopages planned from 15th august on. Was an agreement reached with the company of will the FA's be implementing CHAOS as its called.

Sorry if i've missed the thread etc.

cheers
aussie

They delayed it to August 25th.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060813/BUSINESS05/608130581/1018

 

[accinelli]

They're gonna settle like the rest of the unions. Although, I hope they don't so they can all be fired and NWA can get some decent attendants once and for all.

 

[aussiefly]

thanks for the info guys.

 

[Dewey Oxberger]

They're gonna settle like the rest of the unions. Although, I hope they don't so they can all be fired and NWA can get some decent attendants once and for all.

I forget which movie it was, but Joe Pesci said it best:

FU(K YOU, YOU FU(KIN' FU(K!!!

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Not sure why they postponed it. Seemed to me that they would have had their most leverage at this time. If they really meant business they should have kicked the dog when he was down. I guess they fear they would lose public support or suffer adverse public sentiment, but as for support from the average customer I am guessing it's zero and as for adverse public sentiment, they are gonna have that whether they like it or not.

 

[mynameisjim]

They said it was due to the current security concerns. My guess is they are playing nice to get the judge or the customers on their side.

 

[GidgetDog]

Here's a newsflash - customers do not care

 

[Lear70]

Here's a newsflash - customers do not care

They will when half or more of their flights are cancelled and they're roaming around the terminal looking for someone to vent their frustrations on.

The first few days of CHAOS are the worst. From what I hear, NWA has NOT imposed terms they had threatened so I think the F/A's are waiting to see what the company will come back with in an offer.

It's a good bargaining move, the company didn't screw them as threatened so the F/A's don't screw them back, as threatened. Each side waits for the other to make the first move and, in the meantime, they keep working under the terms of their existing agreement.

Whoever blinks first will probably force the other side's hand to act according to their threats. If the F/A's start CHAOS on the 25th, management will almost surely impose the T.A. and start outsourcing as quickly as possible. If management act earlier to impose the T.A., the F/A's will almost certainly start CHAOS on the 25th as promised.

Interesting game, more like "chicken" than chess now that they're down to the wire.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Not exactly.

NWA imposed the yuckier terms from the rejected (80% "against") T/A from March 22nd. The F/A's didn't get the better deal under the most-recently rejected T/A. The latest T/A was rejected by about 36%...hardly a significant percentage when one is calling all-hands to conduct a job action.

A possible outcome is that NWA will simply fire any F/A's that conduct CHAOS until the hard-core F/A's are gone...then improve the terms and conditions by imposing the latest T/A. The "angry few" would be gone...the company would get the deal they wanted...and the remaining F/A's would continue to fly.

The irony is that CHAOS must be organized to be effective, and the AFA folks are still playing catch-up after displacing PFAA.

Another possible outcome: AFA negotiates with NWA to impose the latest (improved) T/A...AFA declares victory...and I spend Christmas in Minot on a 31-hour layover with a crew of shell-shocked F/A's.

A perfect world...

 

[Lear70]

Hmmm... I had heard from a NWA F/A that she hasn't seen ANY imposition of the terms of the rejected T.A.

No pay changes, no work rule changes,,, she said they're still working under current book.

That was last week, maybe she was out of the loop or hadn't been affected yet?

 

[ExAF]

That was last week, maybe she was out of the loop or hadn't been affected yet?

Sarcasm on: Gee what are the odds of that? Sarcasm off. As Occam said, they are working under the imposed crappier contract right now and have been for a couple of weeks. They also had a miserable turnout for the vote. Hardly the show of unity I expected.

 

[taloft]

A possible outcome is that NWA will simply fire any F/A's that conduct CHAOS until the hard-core F/A's are gone...then improve the terms and conditions by imposing the latest T/A. The "angry few" would be gone...the company would get the deal they wanted...and the remaining F/A's would continue to fly.

The union would be organizing CHAOS, hence any FA's participating would be protected by the union. Even if the company fired them, it would be grieved, and the FA's would end up with paid time off after the company reinstates them and makes them whole.

 

[ExAF]

Maybe

The union would be organizing CHAOS, hence any FA's participating would be protected by the union. Even if the company fired them, it would be grieved, and the FA's would end up with paid time off after the company reinstates them and makes them whole.

That's assuming they don't bust the union completely and replace them. Or the union calls off the strike because it fails and the company doesn't make them whole because they didn't comply with the imposed contract. There is an element of risk involved for those implementing CHAOS. Most likely you are correct though.

 

[Occam's Razor]

The union would be organizing CHAOS, hence any FA's participating would be protected by the union. Even if the company fired them, it would be grieved, and the FA's would end up with paid time off after the company reinstates them and makes them whole.

"Organized CHAOS"

*snicker*

What protection? If you are free to execute a job action, the company is free to terminate you.

If you don't have a contract...and the F/A's don't right now...there is nothing for you to grieve. You can sue, but that's it.

Perhaps AFA would take up your cause and lay down the gauntlet, but that's something to be determined later.

CHAOS was used at Alaska by their F/A's but it was done with a contract in-place, under the rules of the Railway Labor Act. This imposed deal is not a contract!

Apples - Bananas

I hope it works out for them. I have a lot of respect for our F/A's.

 

[ExAF]

This Just In...

Local MSP news is reporting that judge has ruled that FAs CAN strike/CHAOS. Finally labor gets a break. I'm glad the judge realizes you can't throw out a contract and make people work under an imposed one as if they agreed to it.

 

[Mesabi Miner]

It seems to me that if the FA's start CHAOS, they'd better do it on a large scale. Small numbers of FA's can easily be fired and replaced. A large number will have lots more impact and make it slightly more difficult for large scale replacement. This ruling has huge implications for the Mesaba situation as well. For once, a decent ruling...

MM

 

[theo]

It seems to me that if the FA's start CHAOS, they'd better do it on a large scale. Small numbers of FA's can easily be fired and replaced. A large number will have lots more impact and make it slightly more difficult for large scale replacement. This ruling has huge implications for the Mesaba situation as well. For once, a decent ruling...

MM

I guess then we will see if that is the final straw to put Northwest in liquidation. Then I want to see if you say it was a decent ruling.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

The steps taken in the last few days here look like liquidation or a shotgun merger is about to happen soon.

 

[XJohXJ]

I guess then we will see if that is the final straw to put Northwest in liquidation. Then I want to see if you say it was a decent ruling.

You bet it's a decent ruling. Remember, if NWA liquidates, it would be management's own fault. If Mesaba liquidates, it will be management's fault. The FA's contract isn't close to making a decent living, so who cares if the job goes away. The same logic applies at XJ. In both cases management has simply gone way too far.

 

[ultrarunner]

It seems to me that if the FA's start CHAOS, they'd better do it on a large scale. Small numbers of FA's can easily be fired and replaced. A large number will have lots more impact and make it slightly more difficult for large scale replacement. This ruling has huge implications for the Mesaba situation as well. For once, a decent ruling...

MM

I'd agree MM. There really should be a large-scale walkout if the company imposes it's own terms. Not that I'm a big union thumper, but I was glad to see that ruling.

 

[theo]

You bet it's a decent ruling. Remember, if NWA liquidates, it would be management's own fault. If Mesaba liquidates, it will be management's fault. The FA's contract isn't close to making a decent living, so who cares if the job goes away. The same logic applies at XJ. In both cases management has simply gone way too far.

I would estimate thousands of people who work for NW would care.
I dont think at the end of that last day that it will matter much whose
fault it was, but only that it happened. Then a lot of people will be
trying to adjust a lot more than they have had to so far.

The likely scenario is many would probably be offered jobs with whomever
picks over the assets of NW and you would start again at the bottom. Is
this contract worse than that?

 

[HalinTexas]

If they, the NWA FA's, follow through with a strike I think it behooves the rest of us to buy them a beer if/when we see them.

No, it's not to pick them up, it's just to say, "way to go."

 

[Lear70]

You bet it's a decent ruling. Remember, if NWA liquidates, it would be management's own fault. If Mesaba liquidates, it will be management's fault. The FA's contract isn't close to making a decent living, so who cares if the job goes away. The same logic applies at XJ. In both cases management has simply gone way too far.

Absolutely.

The likely scenario is many would probably be offered jobs with whomever picks over the assets of NW and you would start again at the bottom. Is this contract worse than that?

Good question... the answer is "MAYBE".

The wage and benefits that they have imposed might be less than 1st or 2nd year AA or CAL F/A wages. Do you know that they're not?

It's a gamble, and I think a smart one as they're the last piece of the puzzle and NWA will have to decide if that one piece is worth liquidation.

Either way, even if the F/A's DO have to start over somewhere and IF that somewhere is the same or even a dollar less an hour, I bet their self esteem and pride will let them still smile on their way to work as they see NWA management scramble to find somewhere else to work.

I know when I was at PCL I would have gladly taken a $1 pay cut UNDER THEIR CONCESSIONARY RATES while starting over somewhere else and watching the company liquidate rather than take the concessionary contract they were offering when I left.

Both companies can afford to compensate their employees better than they're offering; that's the bottom line, and it's worth gambling the destruction of the airline to stop the insanity.

 

[xjhawk]

nwa deserves to go down, as does mesaba if they cannot operate with average wages, and a cost structure the same as other companies who are making a profit now...and i say that when my job is at stake