NWA Cargo

[shon7]

Also, why does Northwest have aircraft solely dedicated to Cargo -- while UA, AA, DAL, CAL do not? I do recall seeing a United DC10 or MD11 freighter a while back but nothing since.

Between all the "majors" which Cargo Division leads in terms of profits and/or marketshare?

 

[typhoonpilot]

Good question Shon. My answer would be because Northwest is an airline that understands making money is an important part of being in business. It would be interesting to see what percentage of their total revenue is derived from cargo. At my airline the percentage is close to 20. We have 5 dedicated freighters on wet lease from Atlas plus we have an all widebody fleet so we can carry a lot of cargo on passenger flights as well. All the Asian airlines have dedicated cargo aircraft and some of the European ones do as well. Why the U.S. airlines haven't figured that out is beyond me. They remain so focused on cutting costs instead of increasing revenue that they are completely missing the boat.

Typhoonpilot

 

[miles otoole]

Good question Shon. My answer would be because Northwest is an airline that understands making money is an important part of being in business.
Typhoonpilot

 

[typhoonpilot]

Let me explain further Miles. My old airline pulled out of Binghamton, NY a few years ago because they said they couldn't fly there profitably. The problem was that they had been using the DC-9 and had a very nice cargo contract out of there. When the passengers numbers fell off some wonder kid MBA decided that they should put a smaller airplane on the route. Well, guess what ?, now they couldn't take the cargo because the new airplane didn't have the space. So they lose the cargo contract and now can't make money on that route. If they had left the DC-9 on the route they would have been a lot better off.

At my present airline we fly from three cities in Australia to Auckland, New Zealand. Our passenger load factors are not great but we carry a masive amount of cargo on those flights which more than makes the flights profitable.

All the majors have an air freight division, it is just that some are a lot better at producing revenue from it than others.

If your reference is that NWA is not profitable at the moment, I see your point, but nor are they in any great danger of going out of business like a couple of other majors.


Typhoonpilot

 

[General Lee]

We at Delta have 13 (or maybe it is 11) MD-11s in the desert and we are still paying $15,000 a day on each of them---to sit there. Why? I bet we could convert them to cargo (after we get concessions to pay for it)---and we could use them---maybe even wet lease them to some Asian Cargo Airline.......Or maybe not...

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[typhoonpilot]

I bet you could too. The MD-11 Freighter is a very popular airplane and since they aren't made anymore those airframes would be welcome additions to some of the other MD-11 operators. I remember how upset Lufthansa Cargo was when Boeing tried to get out of making the last few options they had.

It is amazing that Singapore Airlines Cargo, Dragonair Cargo, Cathay Cargo, Korean Cargo, Emirates Cargo and others are all expanding their networks while Delta, United, NWA, etc let those opportunities slip away. But those Harvard MBAs know better than us don't they ?


Typhoonpilot

 

[General Lee]

Typhoonpilot,

Our ex CEO Ron Allen was quoted saying a few years ago "There is no money in Cargo."

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[typhoonpilot]

Exactly my point and one of the reasons that Singapore, Cathay, Emirates, Fedex, UPS , etc are profitable right now while Delta, American, USAirways, Continental, etc are not.

Typhoonpilot

 

[OakRBust]

When I interviewed at evil red four years ago I think that nwa operated 7 or 8 74's out of anchorage. Those 7 or 8 planes accounted for I think 18 % of the entire airlines revenue. My numbers are probably a whole lot fuzzy. But those few cargo planes created a ton of revenue.


They are operating 12 74 freighters now. I searched their web site for current financials but I'd rather go play with my boy.

Freighters is one of the things that NWA has done right! There is definitely a ton of $$$$ in cargo.

CYA

Oak

 

[wms]

We at Delta have 13 (or maybe it is 11) MD-11s in the desert and we are still paying $15,000 a day on each of them---to sit there. Why? I bet we could convert them to cargo (after we get concessions to pay for it)---and we could use them---maybe even wet lease them to some Asian Cargo Airline.......Or maybe not...

Bye Bye--General Lee

Ditto! They signed a huge mail contract, and even DCI has been carrying a lot of mail. Why not go further and expand into cargo? Look at the airlines that don't even do all of their own cargo but contract to Atlas and make money. Meanwhile, DAL has the MD11s sitting there wasting money.

 

[Arkady]

I remember years ago I heard a talk given by the guy in charge of NWA's freighter division. Granted it was during a down economy but he said that the 10 or so 74's flying boxes across the pacific were generating more profits than the entire fleet of pax birds. I also seem to recall reading and hearing about how TWA used to have a cargo division and despite its profitability they decided that they should concentrate on the pax biz. If only .....

 

[NuGuy]

Hi Guys,

Yup, NWA has 12 Frieghters, 10 of which have the swing nose. They pull in big coin, and are a big deal. There has been talk of adding more or converting some of the paid-for 747 classics into the frieght config, but word is that Boeing is balking at providing the conversions (they want to sell new aircraft).

Boeing also chopped up the DC-9 lifetime research airframe after they bought MD. I heard that when asked, they said "we're not in the business of supporting old airplanes. We're in business to sell new ones"

Two things have saved NWAs bacon over the years...cargo and the DC-9. They ought to put a DC-9-10 on a stick in front of HQ in MSP...when they retire one in 2014.

Best,
Nu

 

[SMMustang]

I wonder if they'll look to an independent contractor to work the conversions?

 

[jarhead]

Do the FA's on cargo flights have to be polite and cheerful to the boxes?
How many FA's are reqiured on 747 cargo only airframes? .....and do they
offer the cargo complimentary peanuts and soft drinks?

 

[Flyingtoohigh]

They ought to put a DC-9-10 on a stick in front of HQ in MSP...when they retire one in 2014.

The last -10 variant of the DC-9 will be parked by August. NWA only has something like 8 left in service. The rest of the -9 fleet is made up of -30/-40/-50 airframes. Word is to look for an annoucement on a replacement for the DC-9 sometime in 2008. Currently the DC-9 fleet is still operationally feasible until 2025, fuel not withstanding.

 

[320AV8R]

The last -10 variant of the DC-9 will be parked by August. NWA only has something like 8 left in service. The rest of the -9 fleet is made up of -30/-40/-50 airframes. Word is to look for an annoucement on a replacement for the DC-9 sometime in 2008. Currently the DC-9 fleet is still operationally feasible until 2025, fuel not withstanding.

FTH-

I'm not sure where you got your information....but it is incorrect.

Several of the -10s were previous Corporate aircraft, & have very low time. All eight are scheduled to stay around through 2008, the farthest our current Fleet Plan extends. Only eight -30s are to be retired between now & the end of 2005.

The DC9 replacement aircraft will be addressed in 2006, to be operational around 2008.

320AV8R

 

[NuGuy]

Hi all,

320AV8R's post is correct. There are no plans in the works to retire the DC-9-10's. Tech ops would like to see them go, but marketing won't let them. They're great birds, and the dispatch reliability (and indeed for the entire -9 fleet) is the highest in the industry.

When UAL retired all of it's 727s, it put a HUGE pool of JT8Ds on the market for lease. NWA is leasing these engines for basically nothing, and the airframes have been paid for time and again. The number being thrown around is that oil would have to go up to $60 a barrel before the fuel burn becomes an issue.

Turns out that sub-100 seat aircraft ARE viable at the mainline carriers.

Best,
Nu

 

[Falconjet]

Might not be that long then

I wouldn't bet against fuel hitting 60 bucks per barrel in the next year or two, so the fuel burn might become an issue a lot sooner than they think.

FJ

 

[jtf]

Are there any engine conversion kits to slap on the DC-9s that are more efficient (I believe some company recently came up with a kit for Lear 20 series that greatly increased the efficiency)? Or maybe add some winglets to help conserve fuel. I have no idea if either of these would be feasible- just curious.

 

[festus]

In the rumor mill it looks like two more frieghters will be added sometime this year.

 

[SMMustang]

Nice #s, nothing about $ though.

Northwest Airlines Reports May Traffic
Thursday June 3, 4:33 pm ET

EAGAN, Minn., June 3 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Northwest Airlines (Nasdaq: NWAC - News) today announced a systemwide May load factor of 80.7 percent, 5.3 points above May 2003. Northwest flew 6.19 billion revenue passenger miles (RPMs) and 7.67 billion available seat miles (ASMs) in May 2004, a traffic increase of 15.9 percent and a capacity increase of 8.4 percent versus May 2003.



I like the idea of more freighters, that will be the money maker in the future.

 

[b757driver]

Typhoonpilot,

Our ex CEO Ron Allen was quoted saying a few years ago "There is no money in Cargo."

Bye Bye--General Lee

Well, General, it just goes to show what these blokes in their ivory towers know, heh?

 

[frog_flyer]

what in the hell inspired you to dig up this thread?

good read though. I guess this was prior to all the flamers and what not?




i can hear falconjet saying "told ya so" right now

 

[PHXFLYR]

GYoueneral[/FONT] Lee]We at Delta have 13 (or maybe it is 11) MD-11s in the desert and we are still paying $15,000 a day on each of them---to sit there. Why? I bet we could convert them to cargo (after we get concessions to pay for it)---and we could use them---maybe even wet lease them to some Asian Cargo Airline.......Or maybe not...

Bye Bye--General Lee

Hey-hey-hey!!! You fly the airplane and we'll run the airline, OK????

PHXFLY

 

[Huck]

Jeez... I got to start noticing the dates of the threads.

I was laughing about the "if oil ever gets above $60" part......

 

[USNFDX]

Shouldn't this be on the cargo board???

 

[jetflier]

I had to look at the dates when I saw the $60 barell of oil.....I just heard its now above $78.

...so, why dig up the 2004 thread? ...could'a started a new one !

 

[nwaredtail]

was under the impression that NWA flies no dc-9-10's anymore. Retired a while ago. all the current models are 30/40/50's. All due to be retired when the 70 seaters are here. Most by 2010, my 9 instructor buddy told me, but that is here say.