NWA answer to pending strike of FA's

[canyonblue]

SWA was an absolute joke of a carrier to go to compared to the legacies of old; which doesn't say much for the legacies of now.

Obviously I didnt get the joke.

No, pilot pay will not increase at NWA, at least not anytime soon. To compete with and stay an LCC, employee cost structure must remain low.

Are you Steenland? Because you sure sound like him.uke:

 

[AAflyer]

Two words: "pricing power". If you can't set tickets to the price you make money your airline goes out of business even if you have a management dream team. Employee costs are part of the big picture. The reason SWA was so successful was because it had an untouchable model that could go into an airport analyze the best routes, cut fares to increase capacity and make loads of cash. Now it appears SWA is looking for its own routes to compete in markets with themselves. I don't understand it at all. We have the same CASM on routes we get a high RPM on and SWa comes in and lowers the RPM. There is no increase in capacity or money to be made in these tapped out markets. Now as SWa loses its prcing power it will somehow have to find a way to increase its load factors to generate the same revenue to reach predicted targets. However, now SWa should be controlling capacity, but instead they are adding it. Things should get interesting.

While I understand your point, could you explain why NWA, and even the other legacies excepted packages less than that of the LCCs? We were just as guilty.

If you look at the PACKAGES ( not just the pay rates, however rthey are good as well) the LCCs are offering more in compensation.Your hourly rate on the 747 is roughly $178 and SWA is now $198 , why the disparity to compete? I can only imagine the revenue the 747 brings in cargo alone.

Why would legacies need to drive their costs lower than that of SWA and other LCCs. IMO because they have expensive bloated management teams, they still operate in bloated ways, the cost of running the airline is more than the cost of running an LCC. However why should YOU subsidize that? That sounds like a mangement issue to deal with. You fly, they run the airline.

We were ALL taken advantage of, this has been all out lynching on airline labor. However from many ofthe SEC reports I look at the top is still compensating them well.

AAflyer

 

[AAflyer]

Not at all - the more carriers that can keep scales higher the better for the rest of us to eventually pattern bargin back up. I do unfortunately see the pattern against us at the moment for the pax carriers.




Labor was absolutely not the cause of BK, however once we were there they were able to effectively bludgeon us with threats of dire consequences. They did a better job of negotiating than we did.



Hope you stay that way, however I have no doubt AA will use the threat thereof - like they did last time - to have their way with you. Want to talk about mgmt wet dreams - they didn't even have to go there to get what they wanted out of you.

You are very right, and it is one reason I voted no. They threatened BK, however we were watching what was going on to the UAL pilots. They were getting hammered. So in the end, what appeared to be a stupid move actually left us on top of the heep (Legacy that is).

We need some type of restructuring, however those can be done in many different ways, including a cash infusion from anothe investor. Debt has started to be chipped at. WE have been showing continual operating profits, as well as quarter profits. For the most part our pensions are well funded. Yes they have a deficit, however AA (thanks to Beacon Investments) have kept the pensions above water with good returns. We ahve roughly 6 Billion in the bank.

I am not niave, it wouldn't take much to level the playing field again. I would also be remiss in not stating that we are still wounded. However things have been working in our favor.

We will know what the company wants on Sept 20, when they hand over their openers.

I truly wish NWA the best, I live in MSP and have always had a soft spot for the airline, not to mention the excellent treatment I get when jumpseating.

AAflyer

 

[YourPilotFriend]

While I understand your point, could you explain why NWA, and even the other legacies excepted packages less than that of the LCCs? We were just as guilty.

If you look at the PACKAGES ( not just the pay rates, however rthey are good as well) the LCCs are offering more in compensation.Your hourly rate on the 747 is roughly $178 and SWA is now $198 , why the disparity to compete? I can only imagine the revenue the 747 brings in cargo alone.

Why would legacies need to drive their costs lower than that of SWA and other LCCs. IMO because they have expensive bloated management teams, they still operate in bloated ways, the cost of running the airline is more than the cost of running an LCC. However why should YOU subsidize that? That sounds like a mangement issue to deal with. You fly, they run the airline.

We were ALL taken advantage of, this has been all out lynching on airline labor. However from many ofthe SEC reports I look at the top is still compensating them well.

AAflyer

Because with profits come pay raises or at least no paycut. The companies already set the RPM bar below that which they could make money due to market pressure from the LCC's. If they hadn't, SWA would be twice as big as it is today and you would be out of a job. Instead they turned their focus to cut costs to where they do make money; i.e. shrink capacity, cut employee pay, and new lease rates...etc.

Why so low? becuase what you see here today is not what this profession is going to look like very soon. We are actively creating global airlines to compete in and on the global scale. in ten years the sky team alliance will be known as sky team airlines. The LCC's will either be mergered into these global companies, be bought out, or they could cease operations, I don't know what they are going to do with them. However, your package is the global economy payscale, trust me, you are still making golden years salaries compared to what is going to be the average salary in the future. Unfortunately, right now the airlines happened to take it up the butt first. As such only the strong will survive the very difficult transition in the future of the airline business, since it is going to get worse than right now.

 

[AAflyer]

Because with profits come pay raises or at least no paycut. The companies already set the RPM bar below that which they could make money due to market pressure from the LCC's. If they hadn't, SWA would be twice as big as it is today and you would be out of a job. Instead they turned their focus to cut costs to where they do make money; i.e. shrink capacity, cut employee pay, and new lease rates...etc.

Why so low? becuase what you see here today is not what this profession is going to look like very soon. We are actively creating global airlines to compete in and on the global scale. in ten years the sky team alliance will be known as sky team airlines. The LCC's will either be mergered into these global companies, be bought out, or they could cease operations, I don't know what they are going to do with them. However, your package is the global economy payscale, trust me, you are still making golden years salaries compared to what is going to be the average salary in the future. Unfortunately, right now the airlines happened to take it up the butt first. As such only the strong will survive the very difficult transition in the future of the airline business, since it is going to get worse than right now.

You just figured that out? It started with Preseug (SP). Britiannia and TUI, where a group or alliance made the first aircraft purchase for 2-3 airlines in the group.

Well, I am sure that the Cathay Pilots, and BA pilots will be thrilled with our addition to their "bar". Out of curiosity when you look at what Ryan Air pilots make, do you change that into American dollars. They do rather well don't they.

I have never seen a pilot make so many excuses, rationalize, and not to mention pander their thoughts on why we should be paid less money.

May I ask exactly who you work for, and what your job title is?

AAflyer

 

[ils2minimums]

... becuase what you see here today is not what this profession is going to look like very soon. We are actively creating global airlines to compete in and on the global scale. in ten years the sky team alliance will be known as sky team airlines. The LCC's will either be mergered into these global companies, be bought out, or they could cease operations, I don't know what they (who is they?) are going to do with them. However, your package is the global economy payscale, trust me, you are still making golden years salaries compared to what is going to be the average salary in the future.

I think your crystal ball needs some polishing... How, exactly, do you know what's going to happen "very soon" or in "ten years"? And how do you know what salaries are going to be like in the "future"? You state these things as facts, when in reality, they are mere conjecture. You say "trust me", like you have some inside information we're not privy to. I call BS on your gloom and doom theories.

No matter what "global companies" exist, our country has 300 million people in it. And as long as people still want to travel from Omaha to El Paso, or Los Angeles to New York, we are going to need domestic airlines. And as long as people want to pay less for their tickets, there will be someone willing to undercut the other guy to make a buck... (LCC's)

 

[dbrownie]

I have never seen a pilot make so many excuses, rationalize, and not to mention pander their thoughts on why we should be paid less money.

May I ask exactly who you work for, and what your job title is?

AAflyer

AAflyer;

My guess is that he is part of the "koolaide" crowd probably a non-commuting
msp instructor (for now).

His views are typical of the "vote yes or die" gang, which sadly is the majority
at NWA now. They need to rationalize that they voted in such a crappy
contract and now we are stuck with it for 6 years.

Nwalpa was out gunned by the company (again) and we were led to believe
that yes votes were the only way to save pensions.

We have a overconfident, bloated mgt team at nwa, these guys think that
by cheerleading for them they will be part of the cash grab that is
coming.

Just be glad you don't have to listen tho their BS at work!!!!
(surprizingly no-one admits they voted yes!!)

Dave B
nwa

 

[Lear70]

Ummm....

Not to get this thread back on topic or anything, but...

Does anyone know what the status of the F/A ruling is? He's been putting it off for almost a week now.

 

[NuGuy]

AAflyer;

My guess is that he is part of the "koolaide" crowd probably a non-commuting
msp instructor (for now).

His views are typical of the "vote yes or die" gang, which sadly is the majority
at NWA now. They need to rationalize that they voted in such a crappy
contract and now we are stuck with it for 6 years.

Nwalpa was out gunned by the company (again) and we were led to believe
that yes votes were the only way to save pensions.

We have a overconfident, bloated mgt team at nwa, these guys think that
by cheerleading for them they will be part of the cash grab that is
coming.

Just be glad you don't have to listen tho their BS at work!!!!
(surprizingly no-one admits they voted yes!!)

Dave B
nwa

Hi DB,

I don't think so. From the lack of technical accuracy on several subjects past, I would say a NATCO ATI or some other non-pilot type.