Nutrional supplements and the USAF?

[skyward80]

Does anybody have any idea where I might be able to find out more about the USAF's policies on nutritional supplements?

I am interested in using non-ephedra (already banned by the USAF) and non-andro products such as creatine, testosterone, etc. as part of a balanced diet and exercise program. I asked somebody if I should ask a flight surgeon about this, but I was basically told that I was an idiot for WANTING to talk to a flight surgeon. Additionally, my question was met with raised eyebrows as if I had just asked permission to take steroids.

Not looking for info. on risks, long-term effects, what the FDA thinks, etc. I am an informed consumer. I just need to know if the USAF has specific guidelines for me to follow.

Thanks for the help! Links and references are gold!


Lata!
Skyward80

 

[Andy]

'Tis better to beg forgiveness than to ask permission.
I don't know the answer; let's just say that I haven't been tested for supplements yet.

You're a butterbar, right? Butterbars are allowed to violate the UCMJ four times before being punished (just kidding ).

If you REALLY want to know the answer, go to www.af.mil and look at the AF pubs pertaining to medical stuff.

 

[Steeler Fan]

The Aerospace Physiology instructors had this info on one of the Power Point slides I viewed during my last altitude chamber. Basically they had the list of things you're allowed to take, not allowed to take, and several over the counter items (and some food items) that you may test positive for on a drug test.

They quoted a regulation as well, but my cranium was completely full by that time. I'd talk to them with a hypothetical..."If I know someone who's thinking about taking XYZ, what's the AF going to say?"

Hope this helps.

 

[skyward80]

Thanks for the info guys! I will look into the medical reg stuff. Additionally, I'll be doing the altitude chamber in a matter of weeks. Perhaps, I will get the same briefing.

Andy: My gold bars weigh heavy with the weight of my responsibility. Okay... now let me try typing that without laughing.



Lata!
Skyward80

 

[Toro]

BaseOps.net has an Aviation Medicine forum moderated by a flight doc. I'm sure he could give you the exact AF guidelines on what you need to know.

BaseOps.net Aviation Medicine forum

 

[Jafar]

I am interested in using non-ephedra (already banned by the USAF) and non-andro products such as creatine, testosterone,

If you are interested in using test you've got another thing coming. Testosterone is a schedule III controlled substance and without a serious androgen deficiency no doctor in their right mind will write it to you.

On the other hand, and very much off the record, I've never heard of any branch of service testing members for excessive androgens.

Also keep in mind you're dealing with a service that currently wants EVERY MEMBER to have a danm 32 inch waist. So who the hell knows what they're doing.

 

[Andy]

Re: Re: Nutrional supplements and the USAF?

On the other hand, and very much off the record, I've never heard of any branch of service testing members for excessive androgens.

It's an expensive test (as far as the military is concerned). I've read of a couple of jarheads who were tested, but I think that's an extremely rare exception.

For various steroids, they can remain detectible for 6 months or longer after discontinuing usage. Again, it would be extremely rare to be actually tested for steroid use in the military.

And FWIW, Jafar is correct that steroids are a Class III controlled substance; unauthorized possession is a felony. Felonies tend to put a damper on one's career, whether military or otherwise.

 

[skyward80]

Yeah, I'm sure steroids are a bad idea. Certainly, I would never consider taking those. However, creatine is hardly a steroid neither is testosterone. What you're saying is that andro (androstenedione) is considered a Class III substance?

Skyward80

 

[Andy]

Skyward,
Andro is a testosterone precursor; it is not a Class III controlled substance.
However, AFAIK, ALL testosterone products (Test Enanthate, Test Cyp, Test Prop, Test Susp, Sustanen, etc) ARE Class III Controlled substances; they are all steroids. You won't be able to buy any of these products over the counter at any health food store in the US. In the eyes of the law, there is a big difference between testosterone and testosterone precursors.

 

[skyward80]

What is AFAIK?

I see the difference you are trying to illustrate here. However, if one were to use pure testosterone (without andro and any of the other substances which can be combined with testosterone), this would not be considered illegal. At least, I wouldn't think so... all of this stuff is available over the counter. That's why I'm scratching my head.

Isn't there a list somewhere?

Skyward80

 

[Andy]

What is AFAIK?

As Far As I Know.

OK, let me post the dictionary definition of testosterone:
"A white crystalline steroid hormone, C19H28O2, produced primarily in the testes and responsible for the development and maintenance of male secondary sex characteristics. It is also produced synthetically for use in medical treatment."


Testosterone is a (primarily male) hormone, just as estrogen is a (primarily female) hormone. All of us (both sexes) produce both testosterone and estrogen naturally in our bodies.
ANY synthetically produced testosterone is a Class III substance.
You are confusing testosterone with legal testosterone precursors. Precursors are supposed to boost your testosterone production; however, it is possible to shut down you HPTA with some products currently on the market. End result ... when you stop taking testosterone precursors, your natural testosterone production levels are below where you started, and your estrogen levels are increased. You have to be very careful when taking some of the more potent over the counter testosterone boosters (Mag 10 comes to mind).
I've probably posted far too indepth information on this subject than what you need to know. As long as you stick to the list allowed by the AF, you'll be safe. FWIW, I think that the AF used to not allow taking Creatine. (Every TDY that I went to Saudi, I brought a decent supply of Creatine; puts on ~10 lbs in a couple of weeks due to fluid retention in the muscle tissue. Just make sure to give your body a month's break from creatine every once in a while).

 

[Mu2Driver]

just take the creatine, and ephedra-free hydroxycut. There are tons of guys here at the academy who take that and there are no issues with it.

On the other hand, there were a couple of morons who got busted about a month ago for doing roids...they got busted because they flushed the needles down the toilet, causing the toilet to clog...go figure

 

[Delta Po Boy]

I personally asked the Flight Doc about Creatine and he said it was cool. Testosterone will be a big no no. Any flight docs will be glad to answer any questions you have regarding supplements. Our docs tell us to bring the label in. They take a look at it and then let us know whether it is OK to take or not.

One of the guys above said it's better to ask forgiveness than permission. Very untrue. "I didn't know" is an unacceptable excuse for failing a drug test in the AF's eyes. The Docs are cool, so just ask the question.

 

[Andy]

One of the guys above said it's better to ask forgiveness than permission. Very untrue. "I didn't know" is an unacceptable excuse for failing a drug test in the AF's eyes. The Docs are cool, so just ask the question.

I guess you didn't hear how several guys beat the marijuana test by claiming to use liquid hemp. It was a bodybuilding supplement (of dubious worth) that supposedly would cause false positives for marijuana use.

 

[Delta Po Boy]

Andy,

Great advice. I guess it's OK for these guys to roll the dice with their AF careers "hoping" that a loop hole will keep these guys from getting the boot for taking the wrong supplements. Our Flight Docs brief us not to be stupid and ask the question.

I'd rather be a skinny pilot in the cockpit as opposed to a buff hamburger flipper and McDonalds...

 

[Andy]

Lighten up, francis. It had been humor, obviously completely lost on you.
This guy is only interested in over the counter products, not anything that you'd buy in some shady back alley deal.
I don't know the quality of flight surgeon you've been exposed to, but I've encountered more than a couple that are quacks. I'd rather just research the answer myself and find out the correct answer.

 

[nitrogen]

Hmmmmmmmm

Well actually testosterone would be completely fine if you could actually get your hands on it. Unfortunately, it would cost you an arm and a leg on the street OR from a doctor. There are some docs that can diagnose you with low levels and prescribe it to you but unless you have good insurance its gonna cost you. Testosterone is a normally occuring hormone in your body. Since people have very differing levels theres no way to really regulate it or test for supplementing it. Growth hormone is another interesting one that can't be tested for.

But, having testosterone boosters or replicators such as steroids would certainly be testable. The FAA doesn't currently test for steroids on a drug test. However, there certainly are some dangerous side effects.

The steroid pre-cursors are also interesting. They are currently legal although the most popular one, andro, has recently been targeted by the FDA. They have sent warning letters to companies selling andro to stop unless they can prove it is safe.
It's actually kind of a joke. Sort of like telling you to report to prison unless YOU can prove you didn't commit the crime. I love guilty until proven innocent. Totally laughable and legally completely unenforceable.

Yet, some of the sports have banned andro and they can test for it. Right now though its legal. And frankly if they do ban it there's about 1000 other precursors that will do the same job and chemically are pretty easy to make.

Creatine is OK. Creates ATP in the muscles and causes them to retain more water which gives you a fuller look to your muscles and does actually make you stronger. But when you stop taking it it disappears as quickly so its really a temporary thing that may help promote growth by allowing the muscle to do more work and therefore promote some growth. Maybe.

 

[Andy]

Nitrogen, all of the testosterone replacement therapy clinincs that I have seen that are prescribing testosterone for patients are using steroids. I have never heard of any form of testosterone that is not schedule III; if you've got a link, I'd love to read more about it. Here are a couple of ads from the internet:

http://www.real-testosterone.net/?source=overture_testosterone
http://antiaginggroup.com/?OVRAW=TESTOSTERONE&OVKEY=testosterone&OVMTC=standard

All of these forms of testosterone (test cyp, test prop, test susp, deca) are schedule III controlled substances. They are legal for doctors to prescribe for hormone replacement therapy, but unless you've got a testosterone deficiency or hitting midlife, it's unlikely that you're going to find a doctor to prescribe steroids to you.
Note how the first ad uses Clomiphene; this is to combat the increased production of estrogen due to the testosterone therapy (gynocomastia, or b!tch tits, is one side effect of steroid usage). Another side effect of using testosterone is that when someone is using steroids, their Leydig cells shut down, effectively ending natural testosterone production. There are drugs to 'kick start' the Leydig cells after steroid usage, but there's no guarantee. Also, if one remains on steroids for an extended period of time, the body could permanently stop producing testosterone naturally.

The new generation of over the counter products can also have similar severe negative consequences on one's body.
And as benign as many think that creatine is, there are a couple of studies that show prolonged use can effect the electrical impulses in the heart. A cardiologist (and weightlifter) friend of mine recommended cycling creatine for no longer than two months on, one month off due to the effect that creatine can have on your heart.

At this point in my life, I've personally gone completely 'natural,' with only vitamins and protein supplements. (Too many long term unknowns about the current over the counter supplements). Personally, I think that as long as you feed your body an adequate supply of protein, have a healthy diet, and get enough rest (sleep), you are going to achieve very close to the results that you would with steroids or all of the gimmick supplements out there.

 

[nitrogen]

Test

Andy,

I'm sure youre right.

As long as you are under the care of a physician it is perfectly legal to take it as prescribed and you can fly with it. Unfortunately, it's easier to find a Doc that will put you on it than you think. It's a real money maker for them. A DAL guy I know has been prescribed it and I know for a fact his testo. levels came back normal.

I hate needles too much to ever try it. But he swears by it. Although, he has quite a short fuse at times when he's on it.