North Atlantic Crossing, any advice?

[VinMingie]

I'll be making my first North Atlantic Crossing in a few months. I've been through International Procedures Training, prepared our companies most recent International Operations Manual and RVSM LOA approval. Now I'm just looking for some words of wisdom...any advice?

 

[rice]

Get SomeHelp!!!

Not being a Smart A$$. But do yourself a favor and hire a very experienced contract guy who's "been there, done that", and use a handling service. You may not need or use either in the future but you'll be glad you did the first time.
Have Fun.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Both pilots going for the first time?
definitly get someone to go with you, but both of you go along to see how it goes...

really not much to it, but I wouldnt go the first time with TWO newbies....especially in a G200.

Where are you going? where are ya stopping for fuel?

I DO know a few G200 Intl experienced guys doing contract work. PM me and I can pass along contact info (if you want it)

Have fun!

 

[banned username 2]

I'll be making my first North Atlantic Crossing in a few months. I've been through International Procedures Training, prepared our companies most recent International Operations Manual and RVSM LOA approval. Now I'm just looking for some words of wisdom...any advice?

Well it is actually easier than how they make it out in the International Procedures Courses... But there is still a lot of stuff to do...

Use a Handling Service such as Air Routing or Universal... It makes the trip infinitly easier and gives you a contact point for any questions and concerns.

Good Luck!

 

[2000flyer]

Definitely use a handling service. These good folks do this kind of thing day in and day out. They know by heart all forms that are need and depending on what part of the world you're going to, handle such things as landing/overflight permits, etc.

The flight itself isn't anything I would worry about. I agree with the above that it would probably be a good idea to take an experienced pilot with you. That being said, just do your homework, know the procedures, plan and plan again. Also, have a good "OUT" should you need one. The most difficult barrier will be in language accents. The Brits are pretty good. Itialian and French controllers, I've found, can be a bear to understand (side note, I've gotten better attention from French controllers if you start the communication with a "Bonjour"! Don't know why, but it seems to help). The German controllers have been some of the best I've seen. They speak great english and are usually very helpful.

Have a great trip!

2000Flyer

 

[TMMT]

Be wary of cabotage rules and regs, lest ye find yourself birdless on the ground in some crap-hole like Orly. Ask the handling service to give you a brief on area rules into which you’ll be flying.

And, oh, one more thing, if you have to ask what cabotage is you should probably take the airlines.

All the overwater schools I’ve been to they indeed make it sound a lot harder than it actually is. Most of the crossing is relatively laid back and straightforward. Just stay up to speed on wx at all your enroute alternates and pay attention to 123.45 plane-to-plane, you’ll get plenty of help from friendly bus drivers if you need it.

On the European side of the pond it will all depend on where your final destination will be. If you will be going into anyplace on the British Isles you’ll be fine, just pay attention to your altitudes and speed restrictions and remember to read and review any holding instructions paying special attention to anything in London, they usually publish their own, different holding speeds, if in doubt ask the controller, they’ll tell you.

If you are going into France, Spain or Italy I agree language will be a problem, just mentally prepare yourself to listen extra hard when you key the mike. Germany is okay, I agree, never had too many problems there but if you are going to deep-eastern Europe… Godspeed my friend some of those accents can be impossible.

Just use a handling service, follow their recommendations to a tee and you should get out alive.

TMMT

 

[VinMingie]

Good advice so far, thanks guys. Actually its only my first crossing the other guy has quite a bit of experience. We'll also be using Universal as our handler, and paying attention to the cabotage regs. Thanks again and any other replys are welcomed.

 

[mobs]

First of all enjoy your trip. I have flown the pond for the last 17 yrs. and still keep the North Atlantic Orientation Chart out each trip. You will be above the Tracks so a little more radio reports and MET reports req. Once into an English 2an lang. area do not hesitate to ask for phonic id for any fix. Also pan ops(pan ops1,2,3,4,5) will be on each Jep. App plate lower left hand side to show any thing other than ICAO. You will not be bored. Mobs

 

[2000flyer]

VinMingie,

One last thing, if you're boss won't mind, keep your camera on the flightdeck with you. If you're lucky, you'll get a great shot of one of your fellow aviators slipping 1000' below/above you. The same is true over continental Europe. Last trip over I had a CL604 go by the opposite direction from us. We were at FL360, he at 350.

I also followed a BA flight from his radio communications and saw him coming up behind and 1000' below us heading towards Newfoundland. He called up and said "Falcon at xxW, if you have a camera, look down and right and you'll get a great picture of a BA B777". Well, my camera was in my suitcase in the aft baggage compartment. Oh well, but it sure was a great sight!

On my crossings I usually jot down notes here and there for my own keeping, just as a reminder later on.

Let us know where you're going (if you can) and I'm sure there will be many who can give you good places to see and dine.

Regards,
2000Flyer

 

[capnflyright]

What is your destination? We flew into London-Luton a week ago and used Metro Business Aviation. We arranged the pax transportation, our transportation, and user fees through this FBO and used Universal for the flight planning only. The crossing is pretty simple once you get the steps down. Call Gander 200 miles out for your oceanic, sqwauk 2000 30 minutes after passing your coast out fix, talk to Gander or Shanwick at every fix, monitor 121.5 and 123.45, plot your progress, and make sure the sun rises in front of you when flying eastbound. Have a great trip.

 

[banned username 2]

The crossing is pretty simple once you get the steps down. Call Gander 200 miles out for your oceanic, sqwauk 2000 30 minutes after passing your coast out fix, talk to Gander or Shanwick at every fix, monitor 121.5 and 123.45, plot your progress, and make sure the sun rises in front of you when flying eastbound. Have a great trip.

Honestly...

That pretty much sums it up....

 

[redneck jihad]

Go get your Atlantic chart and read it several times, especially regarding position reporting. Best advice I ever got. Poor radio phraseology maks us Yanks look bad. Have fun.
Regards,
RJ

 

[Bumz_Rush]

Pond hops

Totally agree with Falcon, and Red Neck, The RT from the average American in Europe is a joy to our ears......Always get an experienced hand holder who has flown the route in the type of aircraft, and the type of routing. If there is any need to do a tech stop, ensure plenty of cold weather clothing. Remember the RVSM, and MNPS regulations, for yourself and aircraft. (COMPLY),and have a great time.
Please use LUTON EGGW as your first landing and use METRO. Service is good, girls are fun, and the hotels suck. We dont bite....

 

[Deftone45075]

I figured this would be an appropriate thread for this question:

After filling a flight plan to a foreign destination, will you usually get a full route clearance?

Or is there a limit after US airspace and you need to recieve further clearance in the air?

 

[Bumz_Rush]

Yes and No

Assuming you are starting in the US, than your flight plan is to your destination, however your atlantic crossing route is subject to the traffic at the time, and might be varied. Starting from the other side, the situation is the same, with Shanwick giving your clearance on a specific VHF frequency, unless you are launching from an airport close to the water, in this case Tower or similar will give clearance, which should not change.
The first time I went transatlantic, we had Top Gun playing on the cabin video system, and thus no TX mute. We were thanked several times for the back ground effects, and music.......

 

[Gulfstream 200]

you will get "as filed" (to destination usually)

but you need to recieve an "oceanic" clearance eastbound from Gander. You pick this up from them on a seperate frequency usually over Nova Scotia/Newfoundland area - depending on your "coast out" point. Those unfortunate to have to can get this clearance on the ground in Gander if stopping for fuel. The slickest way to get is is just let the FMS recieve the Oceanic via an AFIS message, then usually within 10-15 seconds they will call and ask "did you get your Oceanic" A full readback is still required for some reason. They also want a TMI (Track Message #) to let them know you have a copy of the tracks for the day (they depend on wind - location of Icelandic low - and they also do a SELCAL check so you dont have to monitor HF the whole ride and wind up deaf like all the old farts we fly with.....

Westbound this "oceanic" happens from Shanwick control ( or BODO maybe up North). Same deal except at the close to border aiports (like Shannon) they can give you the crossing clearance on the ground also. They will clear you to your "coast out" point and you have to make it there within 3 mins (I think) or get an amendemnt. This is all simply for spacing on the crossing.

I may be a lttle off on some of the rules, but its pretty simple. Pick up an ATLANTIC ORIENTATION 1/2 chart and that will give you 99.9% of the stuff you need to know for a competent crossing, especially clearances, etc.....loads of info...I pick it up now and then and always pick up something I have forgotten!!

hope any of this rambling helped......