Noise at SMO

[400A]

Any Beechjet drivers out there got a departure procedure for KSMO that wont ring the bell. I have rung it 2 out of 3 times.

They said the next one will cost us $2000.

Thanks in advance for any help.

400A

 

[FracCapt]

It seems about the only way to do it in most jets is to pull the power WAY back as you cross the end of the runway, then coast out over the shoreline before pushing it back up. I don't recall the specific power settings we aimed for, but I think it was whatever gave us 160KIAS(with flaps still at takeoff) and a 500fpm climb.

SMO sucks, and all those BS noise rules should be abolished. Then they need to base a Lear 24/25 freight operator there that launches at all hours of the day and night. Screw those people that moved there after the airport was there.

 

[English]

It was explained to me by the noise abatement office there that not only is your decibel rating a factor, but how long your aircraft is over the "cone" of the noise monitor. So, if you pull back the power too far, you'll be under the dB but get dinged for being over the monitor too long (for flying too slow or too low).

 

[xrated]

It was explained to me by the noise abatement office there that not only is your decibel rating a factor, but how long your aircraft is over the "cone" of the noise monitor. (for flying too slow or too low).

I've heard the same. So the trick is to lift off, suck the gear up and stay as low and fast as possible till you're over the water. This way you are in the conical aray for a very short time and therefore the reading will be low. Of course this will be extremely loud for the "neighbors", and gosh, we'd all hate for that to happen! A friend of mine use to fly P-51's for the museum that was based there in SMO. He said that technique was quite successful.

 

[HMR]

SMO used to be my home away from home when I flew charter. I always briefed the pax before the SMO "Space-Shuttle 1" departure. It can be a little unnerving hearing the engines go from max-thrust to 60% a few seconds into the climb. In the Astra I set t/o power, release the brakes, climb at V2 until the PNF calls "end of runway" then bring the power back to the minimium that allows us to accelerate to Vfs while still maintaining an "acceptable" climb. I've never rung the bell nor had any complaints from SoCal Departure.

Then they need to base a Lear 24/25 freight operator there that launches at all hours of the day and night. Screw those people that moved there after the airport was there.

Or they could just get Pacific Jet to do one of their famous Las Vegas charter...errr... I mean... "Life Flights" in a GII/III at 2am.

 

[capt_zman]

Here's our profile, and it seems to work. I've been in there 15 or so times and have never busted, whereas the same plane has been busted twice.

Flaps 20, static takeoff. If taking off to the west, you want to be rotating by the last hangar on right after Supermarine (this should coordinate very well with vr). After breaking ground, count to 3, throttles to 55-60% n1, climb at 100-300 ft/min (should result in 140-150 kts by this time). After reaching the shoreline, cleanup and go. While cleaning, have the PNF call the noise ops frequency and see what the reading was and get the persons name (if you were successful). It also helps to call them right before departure, letting them know that you are cognizant of what the procedure is and what needs to be done (they will also brief you on this procedure).

We typically are full fuel, 1-2 pax. Not the safest procedure in the world and should only be done in VMC (in my opinion). I believe the limit is 95 decibels, and this procedure usually yields 88-93 dbs.

 

[400A]

Thanks everyone, I will let you know how it goes. Next departure is monday.

The guy in the office I have been dealing with is a real Jerk.

It should be our last trip in there, but I really dont want a $2000 going away present.

Gotta love people who move off the end of a runway, then complain about airplane noise.

 

[Lead Sled]

Thanks everyone, I will let you know how it goes. Next departure is monday.

The guy in the office I have been dealing with is a real Jerk.

It should be our last trip in there, but I really dont want a $2000 going away present.

Gotta love people who move off the end of a runway, then complain about airplane noise.

Why don't you simply use someone else's tail number when you takeoff.

'Sled

 

[400A]

Why don't you simply use someone else's tail number when you takeoff.

'Sled

Thought about that, but then there is that blasted mode S transponder...LOL

 

[Flechas]

Thought about that, but then there is that blasted mode S transponder...LOL

Then you file with another tail number.

 

[501261]

Lose some weight!

You know what really makes the difference to me is take off weight. Eventhough I don't fly a Beechjet, I've got the same JT15D-5D's, and I've been busted twice by the "noise police"*, and both times I've been busted I was at MGTOW. Now that I call the noise police for every landing and departure, I find that I'm usually around 80 SENEL (often DNR-ing) at light weights and around 90 SENEL when heavy!

Certainly doing a "Space Shuttle 1" departure helps as does managing your power on landing.

*I still disagree with the second notice, as a Bellanca Viking had to go around just before my departure and I still maintain he set it off!

 

[501261]

Why don't you simply use someone else's tail number when you takeoff.

'Sled

Hell, even then that clown in the noise office will maintain that he "witnessed the departure"

 

[Lead Sled]

FWIW, before I flew in there for the first time I had a long conversation with the supervisor. He mentioned that it helps to keep the angle between the engine tail pipes and the microphones as great as possible. In other words, you don't want to be pointing you tail pipes at the microphones any more or any longer than you have to. We also do the "Airshow 1 Departure with the Shoreline Transition". Basically you climb at V2 until crossing the end of the runway, then pull the power way back to allow you to maintain a shallow climb while accelerating to V2 + 30 or so. Maintain that until you cross the shoreline. Crossing the shoreline put the power to it, continue accelerating and clean it up - you'll be good to go.

'Sled

 

[400A]

With the exception of a miss, or circle, it would be hard to se it off on landing in the beechjet. With the slam dunk 1 arrival followed by the boat achor gps appoach, we are pretty close to idle the whole time. We have it down now after 3 trips, but it was an eye opener the first time for us east coast boys.

This is our last trip, and I am glad. Service at Supermarine SUX too, you can tell they have no competition.

 

[FracCapt]

It was explained to me by the noise abatement office there that not only is your decibel rating a factor, but how long your aircraft is over the "cone" of the noise monitor. So, if you pull back the power too far, you'll be under the dB but get dinged for being over the monitor too long (for flying too slow or too low).

Correct. But, I do the SMO "cut throat" departure all too often in a Hawker, and have never busted noise limits by using max power to the end of the runway, then pulling it back to 80-85%N1(which gives us approx 160KIAS and 1,000fpm climb). We are also limited(company limit) to 1,000lbs below MGTOW as listed in the performance data.

There's also a way to "cheat" the system. You can ask for a "noise check", or some similar phrase(hopefully somebody will chime in with the EXACT proper phraesology) and if you happen to bust it they won't fine you, just call it a "test" of their noise monitor system. They used to do this, and at my company management recommends that we request this, but I never do because I always come in 10db or more below the limit(and because I forget most of the time).

 

[FracCapt]

With the exception of a miss, or circle, it would be hard to se it off on landing in the beechjet. With the slam dunk 1 arrival followed by the boat achor gps appoach, we are pretty close to idle the whole time. We have it down now after 3 trips, but it was an eye opener the first time for us east coast boys.

One more thing....they have noise sensors very close to the approach end as well as the departure end, so on takeoff, DO NOT set max thrust prior to brake release. The way I have always done it(and never busted noise limits) is set about 80%N1, release the brakes, and at the same time slowly(2-3 seconds) go to T/O power. This has worked for me in the BE400 and the Hawker.

 

[Chocks]

I busted it once in a Westwind taking off to the east with a tight tower-assigned turn asap after takeoff. I fought it, went to arbitration and won. The city showed up with two attorneys at the arbitration.

Somebody is going to crash taking off of SMO trying not to ring the bell and SMO is going to pay a fortune in the lawsuit.

 

[FlyFlyFly]

You need to stop the whining coming from the other side of the cockpit...

that alone would cut the noise in half.

Tell him I said Hi and to start returning my calls.

 

[Senior_Citizen]

I visited SMO (as passenger) twice for a convention, first we go on our CJ2, -no problems-, the second we visited on a chartered GIV, -they limited T.O. weight-, today I revised the data (G450) about the T.O. procedure for Stage III airports, the manual has the following instructions (also true for GIV's): (cut'n paste)

PROCEDURE A (MTOW Below 60,000 lbs)
1) Utilize Min/Rated EPR and 20° flaps for all takeoffs. Align
aircraft on the runway as close to departure end as feasible.
Hold brakes and advance power levers to 1.20 EPR. Release
brakes and rapidly advance power levers (with or without
Autothrottles) to Min EPR.
2) At VR, promptly rotate aircraft to Take-Off pitch attitude (13 -
15°). Upon obtaining a positive rate of climb, Flaps 20°, retract
landing gear, and reduce power to an EPR of 1.38. Accelerate
thru VFS, (maximum 13 - 15° pitch attitude), if necessary.
3) At 3000 feet AGL, retract flaps and accelerate to normal climb
speed and EPR.

PROCEDURE B ( MTOW = 60,000 lbs to 64,000 lbs)
1) Utilize Min/Rated EPR and 20° flaps for all takeoffs. Align
aircraft on the runway as close to departure end as feasible.
Hold brakes and advance power levers to 1.20 EPR. Release
brakes and rapidly advance power levers (with or without
Autothrottles) to Min EPR.
2) Upon obtaining a positive rate of climb, retract landing gear.
Using a speed of V2 + 10, Flaps 20, cutback to an EPR of 1.4
at about 300 ft. This cutback point occurs before the end of the
runway. This procedure results in a higher altitude, and the
engines should be sufficiently spooled down before reaching
the monitor.
3) At 3000 feet AGL, retract flaps and accelerate to normal climb
speed and EPR.

 

[G100driver]

Another trick at SMO. Call the noise abatement office, tell them you are not sure if your procedure is acceptable. Perform the take off and call them after you are through 10000 feet. They will then tell you how you did. If you bust, no problem. You are working within the system and tell them you will work on it next time.

As for the fine .... F 'em. What are they going to do, boot your airplane? You can pay them when you sell it.